Sunday, August 24, 2014

Poor P-Town


Good thing we kicked that carpetbagger Peebles out of town! Wouldn't want a project like this built here. Thank our lucky stars that the nobies are watching out for Pacifica. That quarry property looks so much better with a pampas grass forest growing on it. Yep, an old limestone quarry with a pampas grass forest. Pristine open space. Brilliant move, nobies! You must be spot on with the Highway repair opposition, too. You're all so smart.

I wonder how that hack (John Curtis' very words), Andres Duany is doing. Probably designing some other low grade project for a small unsuspecting town.

Jim Wagner

Private Properties


A Miami Beach Condominium to ask $50 million 

The triplex penthouse will be roughly 9,200 square feet and will have about 9,000 square feet of outdoor space.

           
By
Candace Taylor
                           
 
Aug. 21, 2014 4:04 p.m. ET
Last year, a penthouse at Faena House became the priciest-ever condo to list in Miami Beach when it went on the market with a price tag of $50 million. Now that unit is in contract, and another new-construction Miami Beach penthouse is seeking to hit the $50 million mark.

Located on the top three floors of the Bath Club Estates, an 18-story beachfront condominium being developed by the Peebles Corporation, the triplex penthouse will be roughly 9,200 square feet and will have about 9,000 square feet of outdoor space, said Chris Leavitt of Douglas Elliman Real Estate, who is listing the property with fellow Elliman agent Oren Alexander. The asking price will be $50 million, Mr. Leavitt said. 

Here is a rendering of the building. Bath Club Estates
 
A wraparound terrace will have exposures on all four sides of the building, providing views of the ocean, downtown Miami and Biscayne Bay, Mr. Leavitt said. The unit will have a great room with ceilings 23 feet high, its own internal elevator as well as a home theater. There will also be a private rooftop terrace with an infinity-edge pool, outdoor shower, an enclosed summer kitchen and room for another theater.

The unit will be listed with five bedrooms, seven full baths and two half baths, but Mr. Leavitt emphasized that the developer will work with the buyers to customize the layout, allowing them to "put their stamp on" it.

Don Peebles, founder of the Peebles Corporation, said he plans to break ground on the 13-unit building this fall, with construction to be completed by the first quarter of 2016. The building will have a doorman, a concierge, pools, a spa, a gym and wine cellar, Mr. Peebles said. Each unit will also have its own two-car parking garage, he said, and food and beverage service will be provided to building residents poolside and on the beach. 

Located on Collins Avenue, the Bath Club will be up the street from the Faena House unit that had asked $50 million. The Faena penthouse, which has about 8,270 square feet of interior space and nearly 10,000 square feet of exterior space, is now in contract, but the sale price hasn't been released.

Mr. Leavitt says he's confident there are more buyers in that price range. "There's a very high demand for these types of properties," he said.

102 comments:

Anonymous said...

Penthouse envy.

Anonymous said...

Drooling over Collins Av in Miami Beach? Must be a realtor-thing. Ten or twelve miles of hotels, high-rises, South Beach, art deco, stretches of tacky and whacky, iconic hotels and the best lookin' street people you'll ever see. Definitely a realtor-thing.

Hutch said...

Yeah we really dodged a bullet with Peebles. Glad we had good people like Curtis and Loeb looking out for Pacifica.

Anonymous said...

Somebody had to do it.

Aristotle said...

"Must be a realtor-thing." That's the standard go-to when a pea brain can't come up with something intelligent to share.

Anonymous said...

Oh no! Not the dreaded pea brain put down. Clear confirmation that it was a realtor-thing.

Anonymous said...

Whenever a realtor or mortgage broker has an "idea," start investing in cement futures and bulldozer factories.

Aristupid said...

Pacifica, the Miami Beach of NorCal?

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Anonymous said...

yo wagner, Peebles was ten years ago. time to move on. obsess much?

Anonymous said...

I coulda been a contenda.

Wagner said...

Hey, Bray, give it a rest already.

Anonymous said...

Talk about giving it a rest! Wagner is the one who started this up again. Measure L was rejected by the voters 8 years ago. Say goodbye, Jim.

Chris Porter said...

Yes, you're right, Peebles was ten years ago and look at all the progress we have made since then in improving our town. TODD, if you did make that comment you should be ashamed of yourself. Not only did you attempt to stop the remodel or a prosperous hotel in town but you also tried to tell someone what kind of hotel project to build on Fassler/Highway 1 but there is no problem traffic there so why are you and your associates butting in? If you don't like what improvements people are trying to do in this town then have your group buy the area yourselves and pay taxes on the vacant land. People are tired of having to pay more and more for services that rightfully should be part of the Community. The Chamber has done our part to bring visitors in as the only group in his town that promotes and advertises this City. Peebles made so many concessions to try and bring prosperity to this City. One I remember was paying for school buses that would have eased the morning commute. Oh wait a minute, I forgot you don't think there is morning traffic but you sure did when Peebles was trying to build 10 years ago! I am in this traffic every morning and like Jim it's hard for me to forget what Peebles could have done here.

Kathy Meeh said...

522, City Council NIMBIES (Digre, Vreeland, DeJarnatt, Lancelle) worked against and rejected the proposed Measure L project. And NIMBIES brought-in regional allies to defeat the vote. There is power on city council, and its clear NIMBIES work very hard (by any means) to assure this city has nothing.

Against the public good, the deflective NIMBY spin with Measure L was similar to the current anti-highway campaign: an appealing to fears, hesitation, and irrational project rejection. But this time with the highway widening, the votes are with this city council, and the judgements are through the court. Hopefully, the highway project will be able to move forward soon.

Anonymous said...

The Calera Parkway Project is going to be abandoned in present form.Very agressive and smart opposition that knows what do do to kill it.Present Pacifica Council hedges the issue and will undermine project,Sue is at least upfront, as you point out.

Kathy Meeh said...

734, I believe the opposite is true: The project will prevail and move forward (with any possible court modifications). So we'll see.

Anonymous said...

Todd, Loeb etc would love if we forgot the quarry, measure L, Peebles. We will never forget and they are pissed because that makes it harder to pull their sh^%

Anonymous said...

Waiting on that renaissance.

Anonymous said...

829 I really don't think they give a shit whether you forget. It's clear they're willing to do what they need to do to keep Pacifica the way they want it. Undeveloped.
Just your basic garden-variety coastal conflict.

Anonymous said...

From the Penthouse=Miami

To the outhouse=Pacifica

Anonymous said...

Peter Loeb, claims to have been doing what he knows is best for Pacifica for the past 30 years.

That is why Pacifica is falling apart has broken infastructure, the overpasses are falling apart, The sewer plant cost the city and taxpayers many fines.

You must trust Peter Loeb, he knows what is best.

Oh and BTW he is such a nice guy he feeds feral cats in Rockaway.

Anonymous said...

Jim forgot that every single registered voter in Pacifica had the chance to weigh in on the quarry project and that they rejected it. I guess that's what happens when you try to dredge up ancient history, you forget all the important lessons.

The quarry will save us! Sure, sure, whatever you say, uh huh.

Anonymous said...

726 The quarry vote was very close. Back then there was no organized opposition to the Loeb - Nimby spin factory and some people believed the hype about an evil out of town developer. Same issue today would pass.

Kathy Meeh said...

726, nobody forgets the ongoing assault on the economy of Pacifica, replaced with more faking it, (the current $4 million shortfall and more are part of that equation).

And the #1 NIMBY excuse for doing NOTHING (not building the quarry) that your campaign of dirty tricks used then: TRAFFIC. Now we can finally fix TRAFFIC, but the #1 NIMBY excuse for doing NOTHING is "alternatives". And we all know the destination of "alternatives" is nowhere to nothing, with no funding.

Please explain "the important lessons" (your words) why NIMBIES hate the viability of this city, and why NIMBIES are against the best civic interests of citizens who live here? Have you considered that all this anti-progress NIMBY nonsense delivered under the mostly false guise of "our ecology" is such a waste of time and conciliatory productivity?

Anonymous said...

Funny how people here constantly have to blame their ideological failures on Peter Loeb or some mysterious Illuminati "nimby" conspiracy.

It's almost like their ideas lack merit and can't stand on their own!

Blaming the failure of Measure L on "mind control" is a new one. Thx for the laffs. Don't ever stop.

Chris Porter said...

Kathy is 100% RIGHT. What scared a lot of the long time Pacificans away from a yes vote on Measure L was the traffic problem but again now that there is no problem, everyone can vote yes. That was a very tight vote so I wonder if the vote was today after all our City's financial problems, what would it be? No on is going "to give it a rest" until this City prospers again.

Kathy Meeh said...

918, thirty (30) years of NIMBY deceit and failed ideology through "mind control" brainwashing. The results in this city are apparent. "Laff" on that! And you did not answer questions I asked at 856. More "laffs" with the deflection and further evidence of no "merit" from you.

I see no reason "our economy" and "our ecology" should not coexist to advance the best interests of "our citizens and our city". But that's not what's happened in the systematically crippling of this city, resulting from NIMBY "poor city" ideology. Your solutions to fix?

Anonymous said...

The city will not prosper so long as the projects that are put forth ignore the viewpoints and concerns of large swaths of the community. Let’s acknowledge that no project is 100% perfect. Why is it, then, that instead of working towards a common solution that’s a little more perfect for everyone, supporters of these projects steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of other opinions and go on to marginalize them, subjecting everyone to juvenile name-calling?

We see this playing out right here, right now in this thread. Even if you might be inclined to share a common viewpoint, why would you want to associate yourself with an erstwhile supporter who conducts themselves this way in public? Do you realize that you’re embarrassing yourself out loud, for all to see? Why would anyone want anything to do with someone whose only response to an alternate viewpoint is to call the person who made them a “NIMBY” ten times? This is the sum total of the righteousness of your position?

That people must argue about the character of the individuals and ignore the merit (or lack of) of the beliefs themselves speaks to the shallowness of the positions held. Taking a “your either with me or against me” approach to decision-making doesn’t work in this town, hasn’t never worked in this town, and yet here we observe the behavior continuing. It will result in abject failure as it has time and again.


Anonymous said...

No one's going to give it a rest til someone prospers, that's for sure. Will individual profits translate into a financially strong Pacifica? Hasn't happened yet, but villains are vanquished, victory margins shrink, and hope springs eternal. On the other hand, 4 million (their #) in public funds are unaccounted for and they bought a new, bigger rug.
Oh yes, hope is about all we've got.

Anonymous said...

Well 1147 the city has not prospered for 25 years under nimby envro rule. I think it's time to go the other way.

You ask why we can't work together PH1A and PSC to find common ground? Because they don't want compromise. They want to stop this highway widening at any cost because they think it will lead to more development. That's it. They don't care about alternatives or compromises. Only stopping this project. And they think that if they can deceive enough people with scary words like retaining walls and cementing the coast that they can pressure council to stop this project.

Kathy Meeh said...

1147, NIMBY is the correct and proper name description for those of you who have opposed significant development and progress in this city. After all, that 1147 BS verbiage leading to your twisted complaint about being called-out, you have yet to describe what economic development you will support to sustain and improve this city. Hello???

Your 1147 sideways distraction about "righteous, and embarrassment" (your words) would be of interest as applied to YOU, and except for the permanent damage NIMBIES have cast upon this city. And you personally are Anonymous; no name for you, hence just part of your deceptive mask, right?

NIMBY MacMillan Dictionary. "Not in my back yard: used about someone who does not want something such as a new building or new road built near to where they live." That's Pacifica NIMBIES!

What is NIMBY? "...describes the attitudes of people who vehemently oppose proposed zoning or proposed building development for reasons that are purely selfish or snobby. Nimbies often know that the proposal has benefits to the greater public, but are unwilling to open up their neighborhood to be part of the proposal." That's Pacifica NIMBIES!

Other NIMBY definitions too pure for Pacifica NIMBIES....
NIMBY Wikipedia.
NIMBY Dictionary reference
NIMBY Merriam Webster.
NIMBY Free Dictionary.
NIMBY Urban Dictionary.
NIMBY Oxford Dictionaries.
NIMBY Business Dictionary.
(15 NIMBIES in the above text, still want to play?)

Hutch said...

I meant to put my name on that 1:05 was me.

Anonymous said...

1147 This thread started with a clumsy adoration of Don Peebles. I doubt even Wagner thinks we have Miami Beach potential, but what's the point? Look what the big guy is doing now? Peebles in Pacifica was a decade ago, in the old economy, another bid to develop the quarry rejected by the voters. IMO bitterness and vitriol are cancers in an individual or a town and Pacifica suffers from both. To encourage them for any reason is malevolent.

Anonymous said...

After all that, 105 did nail it and he didn't use a dictionary. It's about development. Follow the money, always.

Kathy Meeh said...

307, of course, Hutch 105 "nailed it perfectly": 25 year enviro rule, with recent campaign to block highway widening.

215, my comment was directed at 1147 for his "piece of work" insults directed at me, not you. Its personal. For that, the NIMBY dictionary definition overkill was appropriate and "nailed him".

Anonymous said...

We should NEVER forget Measure L.
It was a defining moment for Pacifica. It would have been the best possible development in the right area, by a well funded developer and a world class architect in a redevelopment zone no less.
Now all we have is a big dog poop park with no one to thank but all of the phoney baloney faux enviro NIMBY's led by the likes of Curtis, Loeb, Lancelle, deJarnut, Digre, Vreeland, Verby, Howard and Bray for wrecking our our city's potential. Makes me sick to my stomach.

toddbray said...

Hahahaha, some misbegotten Anon said, "The quarry vote was very close. Back then there was no organized opposition to the Loeb - Nimby spin factory and some people believed the hype about an evil out of town developer. Same issue today would pass."

Hahaha, The pro L folks, called Yessies at the time, spent over 3 million dollars in an organized campaign to aid the Yesssss on LLLLLL Campaign that included phone surveys my Colorado inmates, endless flyers and endless promises of everything under the moon. and it still missed by a mile. Losing by 1 vote is still losing.

Hahaha, oh man... good times.

The best of it all was the Yessies knew they would lose at least two weeks in advance of the vote. Ahh, the high jinx.

Good times, good times. It is unfortunate none of the Yessies have been able to move on or forgive the average Pacifica voter, but there are so many hatreds, fears and angers they hold onto... I think posting Anonymously on this blog is their only outlet.

Hehehe, good times.

Anonymous said...

Have any of the individuals throwing tantrums on this site thought about how their behavior reflects upon them and their judgment? This can't be good for your own businesses. If I meet any of you in real life, I'm heading for the hills.

Anonymous said...

422 You may be too sensitive and highly-evolved for this blog.

Anonymous said...

404 Don't cry. There are defining WTF moments in Pacifica all the time. IMO Nothing surpassed Santa landing in the ocean(which made the newscasts) until council misplaced the 4 million. Oddly, that didn't make a newscast. Those two events really define sad little Pacifica.

Anonymous said...

422 a state of high anxiety exists due to the court case being heard now

Anonymous said...

31Can't change the past, but how about a better future? What's this about council being presented an interested developer found by Victor Spano to build everything but a library on Beach Blvd. and, allegedly, according to Spano, council turned it down because "the city wasn't ready"? Is this true? And if it is, is council insane? Were they all in on this decision or is this a brain trust special op? Or another inexplicable event they can't explain? Given that it's campaign season, first of all, is it true? Perhaps Mr. Spano can elaborate since he made the claim.

todd bray said...

Victor,

these types of associations and attempts by you are why I can not vote for you. You are too busy trying to do what you want, for profit. And on top of that you want to be on council so you can vote your own projects approval? Sorry, but just that you think this way is enough for me to say no to you or anyone you attempt to bring in. Good lord, Texas and Florida failed now you want Viet Nam to try? Victor please stay home, honestly, don't bother.

Hutch said...

Todd that's blatant bull shit. To accuse a man of planning illegal gains if he's elected is over the line and slander dude.

Weren't you on Riptide a few days ago offering to make a model for the anti highway lawsuit in progress. I'm sure you would expect a pay day.

Chris Porter said...

Todd, what difference does it make where the investors come from? They still must follow the guidelines of Pacifica on what they can build. I do not understand the origin of the investor objection. Please enlighten me. I heard this same thing about Peebles.

Anonymous said...

Yeah that's pretty racist sounding Mr Brownshirt Bray.

What have you got against Vietnamese investors?

I commend Victor for trying to make this happen.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Spano, that's quite an eye-opener. I am astounded that this went on under the radar with you and your partner meeting with city staff. You mention at least two members of council knew of your proposal and to me that means Mayor Nihart and probably Stone. Your bid is your business and the city has the right to hold out for more, but I think the real message here is that this city continues to squander and encumber its clearly marketable city-owned assets with unprofitable visions like a new library. And leading members of this council have no qualms about operating off the public radar to protect their vision. How much of the missing 4 million went into Beach Blvd plans in the Vreeland era and during the Nihart era? Their actions show this council has no honest commitment to increasing revenue through development. It's all talk. As you point out, the business climate can quickly change and buyers return to the sidelines. Then, as usual, nothing for Pacifica.
BTW, I have stayed at the Andaz in San Diego's Gaslamp District. A beautiful property, rooftop terrace for dining and drinks, but no sea views. A similar Andaz hotel here (about 150 rms @350) under the Hyatt banner would revitalize Pacifica. TOT of over a million per year, jobs, collateral spending. Real economic development with real, on-going bang for the buck for Pacifica. Sell the full parcel and there's more room for the housing piece and enough beach access space to satisfy the CCC. Sounds good to me, the buyers are out there, and yet the council of two wasn't interested in putting the property on the market. La di da. There's your real problem and it's right here, right now today, not 10 years ago.
Mr. Spano, thank you for sharing the info. You have my vote because you actually tried to make something happen and I think you know how. After all those years with Daly City, I also think you would go into this viper's nest with eyes wide open. If you can't find allies committed to real economic development on council and that might be the case at first, go to the people. We're tired of this vow of poverty shit and the sneakiness. We're with you!

Anonymous said...

Bray, you are the personification of everything that is wrong with Pacifica.
Keep spewing your childish selfish crap so that hopefully this time voters will remember not to vote against their own interests.

Anonymous said...

Todd, I don't for a minute think you're racist, but you left yourself wide-open. What you are is anti-development, anti-profit, and oddly sentimental about poverty. And, yes, I know, no one in this town knows what real poverty is.

Anonymous said...

Todd yeah we don't want "them people" taking over right? WINK

Anonymous said...

It's a global economy. I mean, Pacifica is still on earth, right?
Right?

Hutch said...

Wow Todd you managed to slander a good man and insult 2 nationalities in one little paragraph.

Todd is one of Keeners big supporters. Please keep campaigning for him.

Anonymous said...

Todd, what on earth makes you think Victor Spano would vote on his own projects? If he had a project in Pacifica, you know very well the rules for recusal and so does Mr. Spano. What a lousy thing to say.

Anonymous said...

"There's your real problem and it's right here, right now today, not 10 years ago." Anon 11:31 has a point. Stop blaming the lack of economic development on councils from long ago. If Spano is telling us the facts, there was real interest in a Beach Blvd. hotel project NOW but it it went away because staff and council didn't want it. And the public never knew about it. Why didn't a deal go forward, at least as far as an exclusive right to negotiate? That's a problem with the council we have NOW, not 10 or 20 or 30 years ago.

Anonymous said...

1241 And every time we wander off that point--and you know council loves that--we allow today's council to do nothing for Pacifica. We give them a big budget and virtually unlimited access to more money (think sewer fund) and no demands, no priorities other than their own pet projects. Elected officials are only as good as the fire we light under them. They need to feel the heat of public pressure and when they fuck up like this council has, public outrage is earned. When all we do is piss and moan about the past, there is no heat, the fire goes out. Hell, we've never lit it in Pacifica.

Anonymous said...

Separating this council from their library/councilchambers/monument may prove to be very difficult. They, and we're basically talking the council of two, hired a CM who got a library built after the public voted against funding it. Yeah, think about that. Walnut Creek City Council did it without public approval. Somebody found a way. Walnut Creek had budget problems before the library and they are worse now. They can't afford to keep the palace open. Like here, there is a very organized and active Friends of the Library-type group to raise funds, lean on council, maybe even get one of their own on council. How long will our council hold onto Beach Blvd for a library? Into the next recession? It's like the Holy Grail for two or three of them. And, we call this a pro-development council? Yup, we do in Pacifica.

Anonymous said...

Well ok, but they're b-b-b-better than the nimbys. wha-wha-what was it that we said the nimbys did? ba-ba-block development. oh yeah.

todd bray said...

Hehehe, like flies to pooh.

It's too bad Spano didn't share the OWTP idea with the community. But back room deals are fatal unless all those concerned are dastards. We dodged another bullet. Too bad we didn't know the bullet had been fired.

BTW, a lot of Pacificans have offered up renderings for development of that sight. I know of 6. I've even been involved in a staff attempt to provide guidance for the sight. All of the ideas included either housing, hotel or condo units. The difference is all those 6 individuals, all legitimate real estate pros, presented their ideas publicly, not sneaking around the back door.

Anonymous said...

Bray, only in your whack world does a potential buyer or developer have to include you in their business at that stage. It's not Spano's job to inform the community. That's the city's role and it appears they sat on the offer for their own reasons which oddly enough mesh wonderfully with your goal of blocking development in Pacifica. Are you upset because it didn't happen the way he says or because it didn't happen your way? You know, Todd, at some point they might have turned to you for "guidance" just like all those others. Nice to be needed, huh? I'll be voting for Spano because I agree with him. That property belongs on the market, now, as is, with no city strings.

Tom Clifford said...

A better uses of our sewer fund then paying interest on old pension bonds would be to relocate the waste-water pumping station on the Beach Blvd.site.(the currant plan calls for it to remain.)

In one stroke give us more land to develop and make the whole site more desirable.

mike bell said...

Tom Clifford,
AMEN!
1. Relocate the poop pump.

2. Relocate Recology (nothing personal but the current location is a stinker)

3. Relocate the "future home" of the library. (again nothing personal but libraries should not occupy prime commercial property)

4. Build a beautiful Palmetto pedestrian entrance to the Golf course.

5. Clean the pier DAILY.

6. Lease the WWTP site for $1/year for ten years to Andaz (or similar)

Set Pacifica free from the shackles of poverty thinking.

Anonymous said...

Pretty clear this council says library or nothing. They'll diddle til they get the right combination on council and some very creative financing. Saved from development again!

Anonymous said...

PTL, Brother Bell! Time to throw off the shackles. Fair warning council. See the error of your two-faced ways and change how you roll.

Hutch said...

Good idea Tom & Mike but I'm not sure they can move the pump. I wonder if it can be undergrounded?

Can't really have pedestrians wondering around the golf course. How would that work Mike?

mike bell said...

It could be a designated walkway to the Club House or a golf cart rental station. Either way it eliminates the rusty, litter filed cyclone fence and weaves together an historic golf course and club house with the 'future' pedestrian friendly Palmetto "Old Town".
We should also consider several hardscaped transportation nodes to accommodate a low cost or free shuttle that connects Linda Mar, Rockaway, "Old Town", a large centrally located parking garage and BART.
Well planned and thoughtful development will preserve our quality of life and bring critically needed revenue into Pacifica.
Saying NO to everything or YES to anything is not an intelligent solution.

Anonymous said...

Great ideas. Love the tie-in to the golf course. All we need is money and a Beach Blvd centerpiece. Like Hyatt and that Andaz Hotel thing Spano mentioned. You think they might underwrite a shuttle? A hotel with a rooftop terrace with food and drink, condos, a large public plaza with benches to keep the CCC happy, some nice street front shops on Palmetto and Montecito. The buyers and developers are out there, but that will change. Doubt that bothers this council one bit. How long can we pass up millions of dollars a year in TOT, sales and property tax revenue for this city? This council's deliberate failure to create a significant revenue stream from this property speaks for itself...this council is as irresponsible as the worst of its predecessors. And they can match any of them on sneakiness. A name hotel development on Beach Blvd would transform that entire area. New businesses would be drawn to it, home values increase and housing stock improve. Why don't our elected officials want that for us? Clearly, they don't. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

Mike Bell, Like that "Old Town". Take that idea as the theme and develop around it. Dream.

Anonymous said...

2:04

Go back and read who endorsed Mary Ann and Karen. The same people who bankrupted the city.

Anonymous said...

214 Right you are and the work towards bankruptcy continues at city hall! As long as we delude ourselves with labels and name-calling instead of looking at the results, there will be no turn-around in Pacifica. Nothing for Pacifica.

mike bell said...

Actually it was Cal Hinton who mentioned it to me back in the day when he was being abused by the immoral majority.
Call me naïve, but I don't think the current council is anywhere close to the deceitful and conniving council of the Vreeland era. I believe this council's biggest problem is lack of vision and know how, but we can help.
Imagine "Old Town" with safe and comfortably lit walkable streets, diagonal parking, landscaping, benches, water fountains and bathrooms. Visualize a variety of shops, galleries, bookstores, coffee shops, theatres, restaurants and night life.
This could all be kick-started by a deluxe boutique ocean front hotel with conference rooms and strong connectivity to the beach, pier, trails, golf and Old Town. The merchants could help underwrite an uber convenient transportation connection to BART (with validation of course) that could even spread to Rockaway and Pedro Point.
No more campaign promises. No more crumbling infrastructure, sewage spills and dwindling health/safety services.
Future candidates must present credible and accountable action items that will help our city prosper and rightfully align with some of the most beautiful scenery and most successful economies in the world.
The Pacifica/"pathetica" paradigm sprang out of the narrow and selfish poverty thinking of the past. We're better than that. Shake it off and watch the magic begin.

Anonymous said...

Mike Bell, whoever came up with it, Old Town is a great idea. I see the same transformation as you do, but this is the wrong council. Look at the results, Mike. Their lack of know-how is not an excuse. We've never had a council more reliant on consultants and staff. If revenue producing development was council's agenda, they'd buy the expertise. It is not their agenda. Hard to say what is...other than avoiding criticism and that only encourages them to go under the radar. Which they do often and badly. Comparison of Nihart-era to Vree-era? Well at least this bunch hasn't given the feds any land. Although attaching strings to Beach Blvd or putting a poop tank across from LM will have much the same effect. The quarry effect. Maybe a shake up on council will produce a new dominant and new alliances. Hope. But, I love the idea of Old Town, Mr. Bell. You're right, Pacifica can be so much more.

Anonymous said...

"Visualize a variety of shops, galleries, bookstores, coffee shops, theatres, restaurants and night life." We already have a hotel/tourist area in Rockaway with 4 hotels, 5 restaurants, nightlife, a coffee shop, a gallery, a variety of other shops, and there is still a lot of vacant commercial space going begging for tenants. It's easy to visualize another area with hotels, shops, restaurants, etc. but that doesn't make it happen. Why not support and expand what we already have?

Anonymous said...

Where is it written that we can only have one tourist area? We're talking about developing a city owned parcel
that has great potential to attract visitors and produce revenue for this city if not wasted on a library. Old Town Pacifica, as described earlier, sounds great! Rockaway? A rising tide lifts all boats.

Anonymous said...

How do we, as a city, influence private enterprise to improve or expand? Make the permit and planning process easy and cheap and bring them more potential customers.

Anonymous said...

11:19

Make the permit and planning process easy and cheap and bring them more potential customers.

Len Stone promised this. A streamlined planning department and over the counter permits.

As you can all see by looking around, nothing was done.

Oh wait, city council stacked up the planning commission with their own hand picked people.

Wait does it really matter which council was worst, the end result in a broken down city is what we have.

mike bell said...

"How do we, as a city, influence private enterprise to improve or expand?"

1.Have you seen the Start-Up New York ad campaign? They are offering no sales tax, no property tax and no business tax for 10 years for "qualified" Start-Up businesses to relocate to their state.
Pacifica can do a modified version of this incentive to get things going here.

2.GOOGLE (and their competitors)are booming in landlocked Silicon Valley creating 1000's of jobs and spectacular wealth. Now, in order to stay competitive for workforce attraction, they are leap frogging up to San Francisco because people enjoy living and working in the city.
Guess what, Pacifica is right between these two powerful business hubs, on the ocean with superb freeway, airport and public transportation access. A Technology Park in the quarry would be relatively ecologically benign. A smart transportation link system could easily mitigate traffic. Eventually people like to live, work and play close to their employment. It's a win-win.

The old guard in Pacifica tries to convince us that poverty is charming. It's not. It's embarrassing and harmful to all living things.

Pacifica is in the perfect place for transformation. All we need is vision, planning, marketing and political will.

Chris Porter said...

Mike Bell, we take no offense by saying Recology's offices should be relocated. I am sure once any construction begins,we can move but we do own our facilities at 2305 Palmetto Ave and I am told were in this area before most everything else around us.

Anonymous said...

@700 Focus on the results? Face facts? Hasn't happened yet in Pacifica.

Anonymous said...

Chris Porter said...
Mike Bell, we take no offense by saying Recology's offices should be relocated. I am sure once any construction begins,we can move but we do own our facilities at 2305 Palmetto Ave and I am told were in this area before most everything else around us.

Chris any truth to the rumor that Recology is moving up to Serramonte Plaza. I see they rented space where Office Depot Circuit City(Furniture Store, Sports Authority where?

Anonymous said...

Mike, it all sounds great, but the political will isn't there. You underestimate how deeply entrenched the anti-change mentality is out here. Even those who might seem pro-development only seem that way in comparison to the rest. Once in office, they're complete duds. We shouldn't assume that anyone who opposes change is an enviro. People resist change, especially to the town they live in. Many chose Pacifica, not for what it could be, but for what it isn't. The enviros have always just been better at tapping into that, forming coalitions and joining forces for a common goal or against a common fear. Your 'side' is seen as people who profit from change/growth--realtors, insurance agents, builders, service providers, etc. Not saying that's the only motivation, but it is a handicap when trying to gain people's trust about change and development. Don't know about your Google Vision but I think many Pacificans would love an Old Town project on Beach Blvd with a great hotel, food, shops, a plaza. Something for tourists and locals to enjoy. The opposition would be political, from city hall. They have plans, you know? That's Pacifica!

Anonymous said...

Recology is the real Old Town!

Chris Porter said...

Recology is in the running to be the new provider in Daly City so that would be offices to Recology Daly City, I presume.

Anonymous said...

The opposition would be from the economic recession we're in, and it's going to get worse. You don't get shops and restaurants and night life to come in unless there's a thriving economy and money to lend. The numbers have to work out. Almost all restaurants fail, so do most small shops. There's lots of vacant commercial space in Pacifica. You can visualize a thriving Old Town all you want. You can also visualize pigs with wings. Wishing will not make it so.

Kathy Meeh said...

312, yeah, if you don't build it, they won't come. It works that way every time. The "economic recession" is self-inflected. The city can fix that, if the NIMBIES get out-of-the-way. NIMBIES = RECESSION. Sounds like a campaign slogan for them (or you if you're a NIMBY) to run on.

Anonymous said...

Kathy

The differences between a recession and depression are.

When you lose your job its a recession. When I lose mine its a depression.

Pacifica is dust bowl depression.

Anonymous said...

BTW, a lot of Pacificans have offered up renderings for development of that sight. I know of 6. I've even been involved in a staff attempt to provide guidance for the sight. All of the ideas included either housing, hotel or condo units. The difference is all those 6 individuals, all legitimate real estate pros, presented their ideas publicly, not sneaking around the back door.

While you where on the planning commission. Want to talk about a massive conflict of interest!

Anonymous said...

Right, it's NIMBYs in Pacifica who are responsible for the worldwide economic downturn and everything would be fine if they'd just get out of the way. Good thinking there.

Anonymous said...

Ok Todd 334 we heard you the first time you said that.

312 said "the economic recession we're in"

Are you stuck in the 70's 312? Recession? We're experiencing one of the biggest economic booms in 30 years. Well everywhere except Pacifica. You need to get out of town more.

Anonymous said...

An Old Town development centered around a name hotel, such as one of Hyatt's Andaz properties, would generate quite a bit of its own foot traffic. Foot traffic for the shops and cafes. Shuttles from an Old Town Hotel to Rockaway, maybe the Devil's Slide trail, Bart. Attract visitors and locals to a unique, colorful district like an Old Town and give them things to spend money on. Pier, Plaza, Promenade, Levee trail to Mori Point, golf, beach all right there. Include some condos. For God's sake, break the cycle of municipal groveling and the awful schadenfreude in this town.

Kudos to Victor Spano for generating this whole discussion with his Beach Blvd anecdote and Mike Bell for Old Town. These things are within our grasp if we only reach for them. In Pacifica, we just don't reach.

Anonymous said...

334 The proposals include the same things because they're a good idea and people want to build them because they'll make money. A concept that continues to elude Pacifica. Maintain your course city council, those opportunities will go away, and you can go back to handing out ridiculous awards, begging for volunteers and mismanaging our money. Could you possibly be more irrelevant to this city?

Anonymous said...

312 Wishing may not make an Old Town a reality, but this council has apparently gone way beyond wishing to keep that property from being developed to produce a game-changing amount of revenue. All while they try to soak us for more taxes, pour more money into their plan for the OWWTP, run the town into the gutter, and misplace 4 million dollars--for which, knowing how low our standards are, they offer the "I dunno" alibi. It wouldn't be fair, but if Judge Weiner knew much about Pacifica, she'd probably say save the taxpayer's money and skip it.

Old town dude said...

Of course the main reason Pacifica will never be a tourist attraction is the weather: and the city doesn't help by having a freaking "fog rest" every year! Even if we locals know it's usually sunny that weekend, the stigma remains and is in fact, celebrated! Crazy.

As a homeowner in the "old town" neighborhood, I'm all for a development project. The problem is how to increase the charm of the area west of the highway when it's already populated with such a mismatch of mixed use. Single family homes, apartment buildings, light industrial sites like recology, sheet metal, glass, etc. Then further north all that beautiful cliff top property taken up by the recycling yard, auto repair, trailer park and rv park and so on.

Once you get to the water's edge and look to sea, it's a amazing. (maybe the pier needs a paint job? And do the pedestrian overpasses while you're at it!) The views to the north and south along the water are also amazing. But how does one attract tourists to hotels in such a mixed neighborhood? how did the Andaz hotel folks plan to deal with their guests looking out the north windows and seeing that house with "keep out" spray painted on plywood and stuff about buying eggs from their chickens? Then looking east at the parade of garbage trucks?

It takes strict zoning and planning to create and maintain beautiful neighborhoods. Pacifica was well too far along before being incorporated and we are stuck with the legacy.

Anonymous said...

Please Todd keep campaigning for Keener. Even your own group has distanced themselves from you.

And remember that you said if Keener is elected that it's a mandate against widening? Well guess what, when Keener is tromped on I hope you shut up about it.

Anonymous said...

732 Developers deal with blighted neighborhoods all the time. The real obstacle is the lack of political will. The rest is just a smokescreen.

todd bray said...

Kathy, you know I don't post anonymously.

Anonymous said...

Your sneaky anonymous 334 comment politically targets Victor Spano with what you claim to be "massive conflict of interest". Really, where are the dots that connect to that one? And with that "snake oil", think you're helping your NIMBY candidate John Keener?

Kathy, that was posted at Todd Not Victor Spano!

Anonymous said...

Hey Todd, you missed one.

The grading for the streets and infastructure for Harmony @ 1 is being put in.

You forgot to appeal this to the coastal commission.

Kathy Meeh said...

Todd 315, I used to think that you "don't not post anonymously". The main comments in question are: 1) your named comment 8/26, 4:03 PM, and 2) Anonymous 8/28,3:34 PM.

It appears that 334 Anonymous co-opted and repeated your 403 "BTW paragraph" without referencing you. My 8/28, 7:23 PM comment was therefore related NOT DIRECTLY TO YOU, but to an artificial composite of your comment, and the confusion caused by Anonymous 334.

Anonymous said...

Harmony @ 1 is east of the highway. It's not in the Coastal Commission's jurisdiction.

Kathy Meeh said...

711, please do something to clarify and separate your text. You took the BTW paragraph out of a two days prior comment: no reference, no author, no timeline. To that you added unclear attack comments directed at the author you did not reference. What is that???

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Harmony @ 1 is east of the highway. It's not in the Coastal Commission's jurisdiction.

August 29, 2014 at 8:36 AM

Do some reading. Sullivan vs California Coastal Commission.

This is why California tries to make it easy. Most rulings in the State are based on previous case law rulings.

Anonymous said...

Sullivan v. California Coastal Commission - Google finds no case by this name. Link?

Case law is irrelevant if Harmony @ 1 did not require a coastal development permit. Then it is outside the jurisdiction of the Coastal Commission.