Mayor Digre has done a less than stellar job protecting Pacifica from SFO
Our
mayor
decided to hold an informational council meeting, finally. Well, not
really a council meeting. Mayor Digre selected a panel of "handpicked" experts"
to sit with her. A couple of our experts sat and spewed numbers and
regurgitated flight paths and flight numbers ad nauseum , until they ran
out of handy information to share. So what did we learn? That we have a
noise problem visited upon us by a new navigation
system imposed by the FAA? Well Sue Digre has sat on the Airport Round
Table Committee
for years--
as far back as I can remember. Why are we just hearing about this? Was Mayor Digre asleep at the wheel? This was not sprung on an unsuspecting public without notification to those representing us. Where was that information from
Mayor Digre?
Council members are on these county committees to advocate for, and
to protect, Pacifica and to share new and important information. When an action by a government body
(SFO, FAA, etc)
impacts thousands of Pacifica residents shouldn't someone be
on watch?
So what kind of solution was decided upon? All I saw was to send a strongly worded statement to the FAA from our city council. I can feel their trepidation at the thought of receiving a strongly worded statement from us. Why not reach out to the numerous other grassroots organizations and other city councils and become part of a larger force. Sue likes to refer to her "Sky Posse" of citizens and experts. Perhaps she isn't aware that is the name of a very effective organization out of Palo Alto. Perhaps the Mayor has reached out to that organization to form a coalition?
There is a simple solution previously presented by many of us and also suggested by Councilman Mike O'Neil at the May 23rd council meeting. Move all flight patterns back to their previous patterns from two years ago. Let's go back to when Pacifica skies were quiet. Once we have quiet then study the problem the FAA created with the new flight patterns. The FAA has all kinds of new data to study (and we know how government entities like to study data) and they can take as long as they need. This new noisy flight path was a bad experiment set up by bureaucrats who cater to the airlines. Why do we have to continue to suffer airplane noise while they take their time playing with their graphs and radar?!
Let's join all the other peninsula cities, Congresswoman Jackie Speier, and the upset Pacifica residents and turn off the airplane noise. Mayor Digre, it's time to take action!
So what kind of solution was decided upon? All I saw was to send a strongly worded statement to the FAA from our city council. I can feel their trepidation at the thought of receiving a strongly worded statement from us. Why not reach out to the numerous other grassroots organizations and other city councils and become part of a larger force. Sue likes to refer to her "Sky Posse" of citizens and experts. Perhaps she isn't aware that is the name of a very effective organization out of Palo Alto. Perhaps the Mayor has reached out to that organization to form a coalition?
There is a simple solution previously presented by many of us and also suggested by Councilman Mike O'Neil at the May 23rd council meeting. Move all flight patterns back to their previous patterns from two years ago. Let's go back to when Pacifica skies were quiet. Once we have quiet then study the problem the FAA created with the new flight patterns. The FAA has all kinds of new data to study (and we know how government entities like to study data) and they can take as long as they need. This new noisy flight path was a bad experiment set up by bureaucrats who cater to the airlines. Why do we have to continue to suffer airplane noise while they take their time playing with their graphs and radar?!
Let's join all the other peninsula cities, Congresswoman Jackie Speier, and the upset Pacifica residents and turn off the airplane noise. Mayor Digre, it's time to take action!
Jim Wagner
53 comments:
Well said Jim! Sue the bastards! It worked for Phoenix. They reverted back to old flight patterns a month after the city filed against FAA. All the affected norcal communities should join together and file. Pacifica shouldnt be left behind. If Santa Cruz et al file suit it may be at OUR expense with flight patterns staying the same as they are now or get even worse as airlines may divert flights over their communities over Pacifica.
The picture says it all. FAA ignoring those on the ground in an effort to appease the airlines. I live back in the valley as well and it's intrusive. Digre needs to step her game up.
It's been quieter at my house since they changed the flight paths.
Hey, Steve, go park back at the north end of the valley at 5:45 AM and attempt to enjoy the quiet. Oh, that's right, a fly over every 2-3 minutes. Low and loud>
Anyone who aligns with Fred Howard, is a detriment to the city!!!
Articla on sfgate pertaining to this issue: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/test-7945704.php
All of us at the north end of town have lived with it as long as we've lived here. It's gotten a little quieter lately which is nice, but we still sleep with a fan on for white noise.
Hey, 8.37, what the hell are you smoking or did the noise cause you to lose your mind! What's Fred Howard got to do with anything?
8:37
Hey Fred Howard, your skin is thinner than Trump's.
Fred Howard was the original malcontent that was constantly whining about airplane noise. He ran for city council 4 times before finally getting on.
He was an original member of Friends of the Hills.
Which is part of the "gang of no"
Mayor Sue Digre and her very well informed "posse" doing great public service informing Pacifican's of Roundtable efforts to change GPS routing points :the major cause Pacifica noise.Congresswoman Speier is on select committee,building regional consensus on new GPS paths.FAA is federally controlled and Pacifica has to address issues through Rountable and Select Committee.10,000 more complaints to Pacifica Council could sway Council to put FAA lawsuit on agenda ,as other cities have.The FAA enviromental impact study was a sham,allowing airlines to greatly expand inconsiderate of people below. Sue ,certainly,needs Council authority legal action.
Alan says noise is progress. Sounds like FAA!
I believe Mayor Sue Digre, is termed out after this term.
12:41
I wonder if she knows that?
So bad for Pacifica on so many levels.
6:33, we can't get 10,000 people to vote. Regurgitating readily available information about what the problem is doesn't get anything done. The problem is obvious to anyone in flight line. Let's here some positive movement about how Pacifica is going to get some relief. FAA listens to the people that hold the budget strings and that's congress. A little more vocal city representative at the roundtable would be a start. Can someone name one accomplishment of Sue's decade long tenure?
Steink, the great regurgitator. Classic. And a member of Digre's "posse". Even better. Knows everything about all. Lives nowhere near the airplane noise. But, still an expert. At least some of Digre's panel have the noise experience we get.
Aircraft Noise is just another reason we need to STOP the widening of Highway One.
A safer, nicer community means airplane quiet and a safer Hwy 1. Routing planes for a quiet departure with no noticeable delay is the same notion as a wider Hwy 1 to get everyone's commute improved--even for those complainers who do not take the bus..
9:59
Just as logical as everything Trump and Loeb talk about.
Yeah, it sucks, but they were people who knew what they were buying or living with when they bought their houses since SFO was opened or since jet planes were introduced in the 1960's. They have had insulated roofs and windows paid for by SFO in many cases. Those tens of thousands of us who have been impacted had NO CHOICE in this. I can speak for many in that i specifically moved to an area of Pacifica that had little to no airplane noise and my quality of life has suffered enormously. Its not nimbyism when it was NEVER in your back yard in the first place and there were never ANY discussions had.
LOL @ people whining about not wanting airplane noise in their back yards and claiming to not be NIMBIES.
We should have MORE flights over Pacifica. MORE air traffic means MORE passengers, MORE tourists, MORE cargo to improve our Bay Area businesses and economy. And our population is growing, people!
Gee, who am I gonna trust...the FAA or a bunch of wannabe air traffic controllers who think they know better? hmmmm.
Why are you NIMBIES against progress and improving our economy?
I have a solution. those of us, which is many, accept the airplane noise and you guys promise to support the highway fix. What do you think? Deal?
i'm sure the highway nobies will buy into that "after a couple of years you'll get used to it". What do you think? Deal?
The difference with the airplane highway in the sky is they MOVED the highway. This is what people don't seem to get. Planes used to go out over the ocean before making the turn to go south. The new FAA Next Gen program allows them to turn sooner over land and go directly over Pacifica neighborhoods that never had any air traffic over them before. It's as if they moved the highway from way over there to right through your house. Why can't they go back to the way it was? Answer: because it saves fuel/money for the airlines, at the expense of your quality of life, peace of mind, quiet enjoyment of your home, and property values.
Why are you against what the FAA considers a safer, faster, flight corridor? Are you smarter than the FAA? FMV, the Bay Area is growing and we need more airport efficiency. Don't move within 5 miles of an airport and then complain about airplanes, duh! Stop trying to block progress, NIMBIES! Let the planes fly!
The FAA and the airlines made this change without telling local governments or the public about it. It was never discussed with the people who would be affected. Your input was never requested, nor desired. This is only about airline profits and you can go to hell. It's not NIMBY to be angry about this. Lots of Pacificans have been screwed. And they didn't even buy you dinner.
The difference with Highway 1 is they WIDENED the highway. This is what people don't seem to get. Cars used to travel down two lanes of highway. The new Caltrans project more than doubled the width of the highway and now there are lanes of traffic and noise in front of houses that never had them mere steps away from their doors before. It's as if they added a lane of congested traffic right in front of your house. Why can't they go back the way it was? Answer: because they're short-sighted and won't explore simpler, cheaper alternatives, at the expense of your quality of life, peace of mind, quiet enjoyment of your home, and property values.
Airplane noise? HELL NO -- not in my back yard! But even though I'm the literal definition of the term, I'm not a NIMBY for the following reasons:
1) ???
There used to be a railroad track down the middle of Pacifica! Is that what you guys are talking about when you refer to how quiet the old 2 lane, horse and buggy, dirt road used to be?! Imagine if they brought back the trains and they stopped at Fairmont, East Sharp Park, Vallemar, and Park Pacifica at all hours of the nite ad day and blew their horns for a good half mile before they came to the stop. And imagine if they did that virtually overnight. Kind of like what the FAA did to Pacifica.
Highway NIMBY bad.
Airplane NIMBY good.
So simple!
Highway NIMBY good.
Airplane NIMBY good.
There. Fixed.
Alan, you think you're being a smartass but you're only showing that you're a fool.
Thanks for the insult, and thanks to whoever vandalised (now fixed) my Blogger profile. Posts deleted.
Alan 609 AM, why don't you restate your general position regarding the commercial air flight paths, since it seems you have now "fixed" your comment posting (through the blogger name identification choice, name/URL)?
Not sure how or why anyone would bother to get into your personal Google blog identification account, or how they would capture any predetermined PASSWORD to do so-- all so "very interesting", (a first blog complaint, and potentially annoying for anyone so affected).
Similar to the comment from Steve 6/1, 7:06 pm, airplane noise is quiet (also in the hill part of Sun Valley) recently. And prior, the periodic airplane noise was not that intrusive (except a few times).
Possibly wishful thinking, but maybe the airplane noise is getting "fixed" too?
Before the FAA implemented the NextGen program, planes used to fly out what's called "the Gap" which is the open space and relatively less-populated areas of South San San Francisco, San Bruno, and the northern part of Pacifica. Then they would make the turn to go south over the ocean. The NextGen program has them making their turn much sooner, all over land, so that they fly directly over Pacifica all the way south as they make their climb.
"The Gap" is very densely populated.
It seems fair to me that people in all parts of Pacifica have to share the suffering, not just those on the north.
Telling the FAA to route all flights over north Pacifica doesn't solve a problem - it just pushes the problem onto others.
Routing flights out the gap is the way it has been for many years. It's not telling FAA to route flights over north Pacifica. It's asking them to go back to making the turn out over the ocean. Flights now turn much sooner and go over all of Pacifica. It's not about sharing the suffering. It's about minimizing the suffering of all.
The flights that go out over the ocean have to cross over north Pacifica to get there.
The flights that go out over the ocean have to cross over north Pacifica to get there.
Thus the reason why flights coming into SFO almost always come over the Bay.
Unless the wind direction changes.
Well duh. With the new flight paths, the flights go over north Pacifica and turn while still over Pacifica and fly over the rest of Pacifica on their way south.
"Well duh. With the new flight paths, the flights go over north Pacifica and turn while still over Pacifica and fly over the rest of Pacifica on their way south."
I don't think they do. I can see the flights that go out over the north part of Pacifica from my living room window, and there are a lot fewer than there were before NextGen went into effect.
Aww, our cup runneth over...Sue Digre and SFO Noise. And ya can't do a thing about either. Grrrrrr.
I'm in northern Pacifica and it certainly is much quieter lately. I have a question for those folk back in the valley - how loud is it? Is it as loud as it gets here, like window-and-wall vibrating when the wind is just right, or are they a little higher? And what is the direction? I don't understand exactly what the path is that they are using now, are they instantly turning left and flying down Skyline?
There are several apps that show the flight paths in real time and even give the altitude, flight number, destination, type of aircraft and airline. You can see how they fly over Pacifica. It would be nice if there was some visual info about the flight paths before the NextGen program so everybody could see exactly how things changed.
Ah yes I see now - they are taking off to the north east instead of the north west, then turning 180° to run down the Santa Cruz Mountains. So they are coming over you guys from the north heading south. But they're not as low as they are at the North end of town, correct? It looks like they cover far more ground before going over the valley.
Complain, complain, complain. Think of it as a highway that's been widened to accommodate more traffic. Embrace it!
it's getting worse and worse.
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