Pacifica Tribune Letters-to-the-Editor, 8/1/12. "Big lie" by Peter Loeb
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| Anti-environmentalists hate development |
Apparently you have bought the Big Lie that the local anti-environmentalists are pushing. They want people to believe that Pacifica City Councils have been saying "No" to development when in fact the evidence is exactly the opposite. Can you name any projects that have come before the Council that were NOT eventually approved? How many are there? How about zero?
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| Environmentalists promote a robust economy |
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| Eco-Nimby environment came up again |
Neighbors have the right to appeal and the City Council is legally required to hear the appeal. Are you saying that the City Council should not give the neighbors' concerns any consideration? Are you advocating that all development should be approved and all concerns about the impacts of development should be ignored, regardless of how legitimate the issues are? Just "Tell them NO" no matter what? That's appalling."
Reference Pacifica Tribune articles reprinted on Fix Pacifica - "Lets connect the dots why Pacifica is not succeeding financially." by Elaine Larsen. "Not a lie" by Peter Loeb".
Recent related Pacifica Tribune articles reprinted on Fix Pacifica - "Differences of opinion in Pacifica" by Paul Slavin. "Environment and economy" by Gil Anda. Our environment should be our economy" by Samuel Casillas.
Submitted by Jim Alex
Related - Cat wins shell game video, 56 seconds.
Submitted by Jim Alex
Posted by Kathy Meeh
146 comments:
"There was a comment on Pacifica Patch that "Over the course of ten years, the only new commercial structure I can think of that was built in Pacifica was the auto parts store in Pacific Manor." This is an example of how the lie is perpetuated."
Who is that despicable, evil liar?
Big whoop, probably a guy thing. You know guys, car parts, etc. Wonder if his memory improved? Add to that list?
What could possibly be more anti-environmetal than a sewage system that regularly pollutes the ocean and a built environment that looks third world?
What doesn't compute about a city with no money and an infrastructure in complete disrepair?
Why are NIMBY's and faux enviros allowed to abuse the appeals process and derail revenue generating development?
Who are the real anti-environmentalist?
When Boeing went thru a major downturn in Seattle. Billboards went up. Will the last person in Seattle please turn out the lights.
Sinai, can you make sure when the last hippie leaves Pacifica, and the town is bankrupt, can you make sure you shut off the lights!
haha Steve, we all make mistakes, Believe me I know.
But the gist of what you were saying is true. The Peter Loeb crowd stopped several important projects.
Name them
What bothers you more, that housing in the quarry requires a vote, or that the vote has been no twice?
"haha Steve, we all make mistakes, Believe me I know."
I have never made a mistake nor lied, Hutch!
When I made the statement Peter alluded to, I was genuinely trying to remember if there were other structures beyond the auto parts store that were built from the ground up during the no-growth council years of Lancelle, Digre, Vreeland and DeJarnatt.
I was inviting people to clue me in on anything that I had missed. It wasn't meant to be a statement of fact, which is why I included the term, "I can think of."
He was right about the two commercial structures at Connemara. The Houmam's building on Palmetto doesn't look finished yet, so I'm not counting it. Other than that, his counter-examples were nothing more than remodels, expansions of existing structures, or new businesses moving into vacant spaces.
That's like me saying the city doesn't allow housing to be built, and the response I get is, "What do you mean? Permits were eventually granted for a handful of sun rooms and extra bedrooms on existing homes."
What's ironic is that many of the instances Peter referred as proof that the city is business-friendly were fought by the usual "Gang of No," so he's trying to claim credit for projects they tried to block.
If you can't name the "several important projects" that were stopped, then it's not a true statement.
Council doesn't have to say "no" to stop a project.
They can effectively stop projects by simply not saying "yes," waiting for the developers to run out of money or give up.
OK, so name the projects that were stopped by simply not saying yes.
Horizons, Harmony@1, Prospects immediately come to mind.
Sinai you made a mistake the other day about the building that houses A grape in the fog.
The mind is the 2nd thing to go Steve-0
Those 3 projects have already been discussed on this blog. The City Council did not stop them by not saying yes. Horizons got all the required approvals but did not submit for a building permit. The Prospects was approved and recently got a permit extension to 9/2/14. The reason Horizons, Prospects, and Harmony have not moved forward is the lack of financing. The City Council did not delay these projects.
The Assisted Living project is a perfect example of how the old city council in cahoots with their NIMBY constituents delay and delay and delay until the developer gives up. Which they would have done if Vreeland hadn't resigned.
The Assisted Living project is a perfect example of how the old city council in cahoots with their NIMBY constituents delay and delay and delay until the developer gives up. Which they would have done if Vreeland hadn't resigned.
The Assisted Living Center could have been given the green light on January 23 if Len Stone hadn't recused himself at that time.
The Assisted Living Center was approved. This is another phony issue.
Fogel you've got a lot of nerve. Just tossing your facts and common sense around like that. Anon1054 may need aftercare.
anon@1054 sounding a little fascist
there, again
"Those 3 projects have already been discussed on this blog."
As I've said before, the city withholds approval for years, until developers run out of money or give up.
From what I know about Harmony@1 and the Prospects, the city also forced the developers to drastically downsize the projects, reducing the financial return to a point where it's not necessarily worth it go forward.
"The Assisted Living Center could have been given the green light on January 23 if Len Stone hadn't recused himself at that time."
Of course Pete recusing himself, Vreeland not showing up at meetings, and endless challenges by the usual Gang of No had nothing to do with the delays.
Sinai, every now and then on the harvest moon you make sense!!!
Sure, Jim and Pete delayed the thing but their actions/inactions were no surprise. Stone's was. What was the story behind that? Fishy advice from another councilmember, simply bad legal advice, what? Glad it got cleared up before we lost a project and gained a lawsuit. Now you see us, now you don't, is no way to hold public office.
Steve Sinai said...
"The Assisted Living Center could have been given the green light on January 23 if Len Stone hadn't recused himself at that time."
Of course Pete recusing himself, Vreeland not showing up at meetings, and endless challenges by the usual Gang of No had nothing to do with the delays.
The only delays were due to a lack of quorum and then representatives of the Project were unavailable to appear before council for a period of 2-3 months. There were no "endless challenges."
The Project could have proceeded on January 23 if Stone hadn't recused himself at that time -- there would have been a quorum.
Months later (June 11, to be exact), Stone said he was okay to sit and hear the matter and he was ultimately one of four councilmembers who denied the appeals against the Center.
It's too bad the "no legal conflict" determination wasn't made earlier -- Stone could have heard the Jan. 23 agenda item (or subsequent appearences on the agenda).
anon419 what's that? Sinai mooned someone?
lets see if the senior assisted living center gets a loan, gets built and is finished and old people move in.
Then I will call it a 100% victory!
Chris, as far as I know lack of a quorum means multiple members must be missing, not just one.
Why are you only blaming Stone, and excusing the others?
And ok, maybe I shouldn't have said "endless" challenges, but there was a challenge from the usual NIMBY clan that opposes everything. Without that, the project could have been approved much earlier.
I don't blame Stone but I'd sure like to know who wrongly advised him to recuse himself. Big and potentially very costly mistake. They haven't broken ground yet but looks like we lucked out when the city attorney later said he could hear and vote on the item.
Steve,
I don't blame Stone -- I apologize for leaving that impression; the quorum mess really began with Vreeland's attendance issues.
The appeal would have introduced a two month delay had the quorum issues been worked out. To blame the nine-month delay on those who appealed the Project isn't a fair portrayal of what happened.
Chris, I'm blaming the delay on both the appeals and people not showing up.
I believe Stone was told not to vote because his office was so close to the building site. I am curious if anyone knows whether Pete was advised by the city attorney that he couldn't vote on the project, or whether he decided on his own to recuse himself because his sister was one of those challenging the project. Anyone know?
Yes but Vreeland walked on water, parted he sea and fed the whole city of Pacifica on one loaves of bread.
The poster boy of the bankruptcy of Pacifica.
Yeah, I'm curious about who recommended these recusals. With Vreeland giving no sign he'd return, these recusals in effect delayed the hearing for months and could have caused the developer to walk away in frustration. Not a first for Pacifica. Wouldn't that have been a happy coincidence for some? And honestly it all may have been just a coincidence but it makes me very curious about who provided the initial legal advice, if any was provided, and how it came to be changed for Len Stone. Do you think the recusal process could be manipulated and misused? Shine a little light on it and we'll know.
Why doesn't anyone bring up the Houmanns project? The usual band of hippies showed up to protest a project totally in character with what any sensible people want for Palmetto. Why? Because someone complained about "her light", despite already signing off on the property being zoned for that purpose.
Despite being approved by planning, council continued the hearings over and over, no doubt costing them tons. Eventually, it was approved, but who knows if they could even afford it any longer. By the way, I hear the appellant left long ago.
Great work, NIMBYs!!! Way to keep Pacifica a s|*^thole!
I also hear the Skyfield USA boys have their fingers in the assisted living pie. In fact Diaz is telling everyone he owes money to he will pay up when this loan gets funded. The Skyfield USA boys couldn't borrow enough money to buy a postage stamp.
Nancy Hall, and her gang of singing hippies got the lady Robin Runneals, to get the owner of the house next door to come crying to council about stealing her sun and air.
Then Pete pulled his stupid stunt of appealing.
Poor Sneaky Pete stayed on council just long enough to bankrupt the city.
I always thought that Pacifica was "FIXED" when Sinai, picked up the phone and called Todd Bray!
Btw why don't these guys run for council, they seem to have all the answers?
Pete recused himself because he is a beneficiary on his mother's trust. Financial interest. Has anyone thought to ask Stone what the story is? Nah! that would make too much sense and cut this stream down to size.
Stone's office may be inside the 500' mandatory ring of recusal. If you have a property or financial interest within 500' of a project you are required to recuse yourself. To move this project along Stone may have been convinced to disregard the mandatory barrier.
If he had been the deciding vote, which he wasn't, it would have meant something.
"Has anyone thought to ask Stone what the story is?" Anonymous 8:11 AM
Len Stone stated his reason for recusal from the initial extended care facility vote.
Pete DeJarnatt said of himself, he didn't feel there was any reason to recuse, but he did anyway.
Vreeland didn't show up. After that there was enough pressure that Vreeland resigned. There following, city council and the city moved into action leading to the appointment of Ginny Jaquith.
Remember some of the conversations here? There was lots of NIMBY complaints about the extended care facility: the grey ghetto, the construction, the noise, the creek, zoning, ecological disaster, etc.
Oh, and the always complaints were thrown in too. Too large; right project, wrong place. Got to love that "wrong place" complaint. The developer works-out a project (including an EIR and the usual long distance sprint through planning) on a privately owned parcel-- and the NIMBY complaint is always: its the wrong place. Yeah, well its Pacifica.
What has mayor pro teim Len done in the past year? Has he increased city revenue? NO! Has he come up with any possible revenue producing projects? NO Has he talked to anyone about the old waste water treatment plant? NO How bout a developer for the empty quarry? NO
He has held up a grand opening banner to get into the Tribune in exchance for a free hot dog and soda.
Coming from a guy who got the idea of being on city council by riding his skateboard around town.
This is what we get for putting Doogie Houser on the City Council
"What has mayor pro teim Len done in the past year?" Anonymous 9:26 AM
You may not have noticed again, but recently Mayor Pro Tem Len Stone got City Council to set-goals. Set-goals, just like most other city councils in San Mateo county, California, and the USA.
Turns out, the #1 city council goals going forward are ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, and public communication. Hopefully the Fall election incoming city council will not be benchwarmers, but will move these #1 goals forward.
But Cecilia Quick to open the rolodex and call outside council said this was ok. I brought this to her attention long ago. She yawned and walked back into her office for the 3rd nap of the day.
$185,000 a year plus bennies to open a rolodex and make a phone call.
No one why the town is bankrupt
Meeh why are you defending these stupid tits.(and I am using the old english version of the word stupid tit)
Len, is a deer caught in the headlights
"Pete recused himself because he is a beneficiary on his mother's trust. Financial interest."
That sounds like a made up answer. The Tribune says, "Mayor Pete DeJarnatt recused himself, as he said he had a perceived conflict of interest. His sister had been one of the appellants who appealed the Planning Commission approval."
What I'd like to know is if the decision to recuse himself was Pete's personal decision, or whether he was advised to recuse himself by the city's attorney.
If he was told by the attorney to recuse himself, I'll cut him some slack. If he decided on his own to recuse himself, then that's yet another example of how the no-growth contingent on council consciously drags out approval processes.
"..why are you defending these stupid tits.."
Anonymous 10:49 AM, three are a majority on city council. Three rule. Less than three, results are zero.
Who are you? Bold in comment, but who knows what your comment intent is. That is sometimes the problem with being Anonymous.
But Cecilia Quick to open the rolodex and call outside council said this was ok.
Cecilia Quick has not been Pacifica's attorney in over a year.
Anonymous said...
"What bothers you more, that housing in the quarry requires a vote, or that the vote has been no twice?"
That Loeb and crew created unwarranted fear in voters about traffic and an unscrupulous "outside" developer.
He did anything necessary to stop that project including lie.
1. "Len Stone stated his reason for recusal from the initial extended care facility vote." my comment, 9:06AM
Clarification, Len Stone's business "may have been was within 500 feet of the project" as Todd Bray said at 8:29 AM
2. "Pete DeJarnatt said of himself, he didn't feel there was any reason to recuse, but he did anyway." my comment, 9:06 AM
Clarification, Pete DeJarnatt further muttered it was a perceived conflict. These were DeJarnatt's comments at city council, and he really made no further explanation.
Steve Sinai at 10:43 AM, has included the Pacifica Tribune statement, a more accurate description of why Pete DeJarnatt recused himself. Remember with pressure, DeJarnatt also recused himself from the Houmann's Palmetto Avenue project, a property DeJarnatt's brother-in--law once owned.
"Loeb and crew created unwarranted fear in voters about traffic"
Which they are now saying doesn't exist so they can oppose the highway widening project.
First off, I support the use of the term "eco-nimby" rather than hippy, a far more accurate term for what you are describing. This town does have it's fair share of citizens who reflexively are against any development, but most of them are anything but hippies. That being said, I don't think that Peter Loeb qualifies as an eco-nimby, because he has consistently been in favor of developing the quarry, and in fact helped designate it a redevelopment zone. The fact that he was not in favor of either proposed development doesn't automatically make him an eco-nimby, unless you want to use that term to describe the majority of Pacificans who also voted against those projects. (And if you do that, the term becomes meaningless.) I am convinced that there are a majority of Pacificans that would support an appropriately sized development in the quarry, unfortunately we have never had the chance to do so, and it is becoming increasingly likely we will never get the chance. For those of you who want to label me an eco-nimby, that's your perrogative. I confess that I do consider the health of the planet more important than the fiscal solvency of any particular community, which is admittedly pretty extreme. But I still try to find solutions that address both concerns at the same time. To that end I have a unique idea for the quarry which I will be proposing in a few days. Stay tuned...
If it involves a roller-coaster, I'm in.
What I'd really like to see would be a high-tech campus.Lets get some good paying job here, might just boost the local housing market and spark a business boom.
Me too!
A good "Playland by the Sea" would be a great draw to our fair town.
Sinai, you are to short to ride the roller coasters.
You midget!
Why are Mike Bell and Tom Clifford the only two guys who make sense on here.
I think the rest of you are all on dope!
You may not have noticed again, but recently Mayor Pro Tem Len Stone got City Council to set-goals. Set-goals, just like most other city councils in San Mateo county, California, and the USA.
Turns out, the #1 city council goals going forward are ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, and public communication. Hopefully the Fall election incoming city council will not be benchwarmers, but will move these #1 goals forward.
Ya that file will go into a file cabinet and never be heard or discussed again.
pathetic!
Ian, how about bankrupters of the city? Lets see Hippies are smelly don't bathe and smoke a lot of dope.
Lots of the no growt hippies around town don't bathe are smelly and smoke a lot of dope!
"the majority of Pacificans who also voted against those projects"
That is factually incorrect.
"I do consider the health of the planet"
Then why are you breeding? That's not a glib comment -- if you're so against housing, be responible and stop creating new people who will require even more housing. While you're at it, stop blocking housing developments that are much more eco-friendly than miles and miles of Linda Mar ranchers.
Interesting that a "Play Land" idea came up cause that is exactly what I think would be a good idea. Although, maintaining such a park so near the coast would be costly.
We need another indoor recreation. Safe from the harsh coastal climate.
ANON 609PM Maybe we could get some pointers from Santa Cruz.
Lot of assumptions on here about why Pete and Len recused themselves from the assisted-living item but nothing that settles the question. Who decides if someone has to recuse themselves? Pete's almost sounds voluntary. Len's was clearly ill-advised because he changed his mind. It's another case where a lack of transparency damages credibility. Can recusal be manipulated to delay or impede council? Was this the case with the assisted-living facility hearing? Only council knows.
anon1114 I think what bothers you is that Loeb and the twirlies beat the world-class developer and his team. How? They had a head start of voters who had doubts about the project and Peebles failed to remove those doubts. Pacifica definitely lost but lucky Don is probably thanking Loeb and the twirlies every day.
The decision to recuse is almost always a personal decision. the City attorney advises you but the final decision is up to you.If you decide to remain part of the process an you are challenged in court the cost in time and money can be great and some time devastating. Pete made the right decision and Len's situation changed allowing him to hear the appeals.
"They had a head start of voters who had doubts about the project.." Anonymous 8:28pm.
Yep, those voters against developing the quarry in 2006 and 2002 include the NIMBYS and their city council champions 4 (Vreeland, DeJarnatt, Lancelle and Digre). City council majority rules, and these individuals knew how to influence, promote and block progress. Cal Hinton supported quarry development both times, but he was only 1 city council member.
With both proposed developments the spin was about the same: traffic, houses, out-of-city developer (as if any in city developer could build such a project).
Involved in both campaigns were visitors from the county Sierra Club, Committee for Green Foothills, Greenbelt Alliance, San Mateo County League for Coastside Protection, Surfrider Foundation, etc. Some of these proactive people canvased the neighborhoods spinning the story of whatever fear would work for you. They stood out on the highway with their signs, etc.
After Trammell Crow got trounced you'd think Peebles would come to town with more than BBQ and pretty pictures. Oh well, we won't have to worry about this happening again before mid-century, if ever.
Thanks, Tom Clifford. I can see where it's better to be safe than sorry. Not a tamper-proof system but it is our system.
"...the City attorney advises you but the final decision is up to you.." Tom Clifford 9:32 PM
Thanks Tom for that clarification. And your 4:05 PM comment that "we need some good paying job here" was a breath of fresh air.
Would a tech campus bring-in enough tax revenue at the 88 acre quarry? Of course now the city brings in $0 from that property.
Ian 2:57 PM, personally I don't care if you're an eco-NIMBY, you're interesting. And I'm looking forward to whatever "unique ideas" you might have for quarry development.
We're only dreaming here. And as long you and Tom have room for that custom retail outlet in your quarry plan, guess that will be okay. That is, if the bank holding company owner goes for it.
DeJarnatt recused himself from voting on the old farts home because he knew no quorum was as good as voting no. Then his NIMBY friends could say he never voted no.
Do the math. With Vreeland MIA the last thing you want is Pete there to vote no. Sue could have joined him and it's a tie or without Len it's 2 to 1 and byebye project. It all worked out just fine. Now let's hope the builder has the money to build it.
premiumoutlets.com
Would a tech campus bring-in enough tax revenue at the 88 acre quarry? Of course now the city brings in $0 from that property.
I like this idea but I think retail with housing above and name brand stores will be a better idea.
Premium Outlets will not work, not enough traffic on highway one and I doubt people will go so far off 101 and 280 to find it.
Plus where are the tech campus people going to live. In Linda Mar next to the meth house? Or in Manor next to the meth house?
Pacifica=the little one star trailer park by the sea!
Len Stone, is quickly turning into another Vreeland and DeJarnatt.
He never answers an email nor does he return phone calls.
I wonder how he pays the rent?
Please, don't start with the heel-clicking and chanting "outlet mall" again. It's almost worse than the twirly-dancing.
Maintenance is a given.
Most of the world's population is on a salt air coast and plenty of examples of oceanside amusement parks exist.
On another note, San Francisco is experiencing a huge influx of tech related jobs. Even the Market Street ghetto is gentrifying. Why?
Who wants to fight traffic, breath smoggy air and fine dine at Burger King in Sunnyvale when they can live and work in a culturally rich urban environment like SF? The Quarry as a hi-tech business/residential park would zoom.
Quick, before the NIMBY's and the faux enviro's kill yet another opportunity staring us in the face.
I'm confident that every single one the people with experience developing a property of that size who also read this blog will jump right on it.
I'm confident.." Anonymous 10:22 AM
I am confident that a developer that builds the quarry will do scientific feasibility studies in advance, because they all do that.
Tom and Mike, I like the idea that Pacifica would become a clean technology hub as one component of a business friendly city. Some of our techs who live here and along the coast might benefit from a shorter commute as well.
Anyone know the status of the quarry property?
"Premium Outlets will not work, not enough traffic on highway one and I doubt people will go so far off 101 and 280 to find it."
People who would otherwise have to drive to Gilroy or Vacaville would jump at the chance to drive to Pacifica instead. Premium Outlets are destination points. Most people who visit them don't stop off on a whim because they happen to be driving by.
Sinai, have you ever developed an outlet mall?
Major freeway access.
Fashion Island in San Mateo failed cause people couldnt find it.
you jokers do realize Peebles Corp walked away well after Measure L did not pass
and that Daniel Grimm was stuck negotiating with Cecilia Quick and said no to that
and then he met with vreeland and lancelle, who pressured him to start over at square 1
and greatly reduce the development footprint, probably on the bad advice of todd bray
and Daniel Grimm only walked away because he did not want the 5 year legal fight the nobies would have brought
and that todd bray chased away another potential developer last year
what is wrong with this picture? no one will buy and develop the quarry
it as as pete loeb wants it, and it is as todd bray wants it, it is as nancy hall wants it, it is as ian butler wants it
give up on the quarry.
@ 12:02, work to elect a proactive business and economy friendly city council, and go to the doctor and get some meds.
@ 12:02, Fashion Island was not the quarry. It was not a Premium Outlet mall. The location did not lend itself to being a destination. Been there?
"Fashion Island in San Mateo failed cause people couldnt find it."
It's an invalid comparison. Fashion Island was a run-of-the-mill mall that required driving through a maze of city streets to get to.
Premium Outlet Malls are unique destinations that attract people from miles around. And it would be easily accessible from the highway.
"give up on the quarry."
Go wallow in your despair somewhere else, quitter.
The US Gov is desperately trying to fine a repository for used nuclear full rods. That would kill 2 birds
The Pedro Point hippies chased the outlet mall that wanted go in where the Fresh & Easy is now.
Sinai=never does his homework.
Btw Sinai, don't you think every mall developer looked over the quarry?
Shopping the upscale outlet malls is destination shopping and the quarry's location does not rule that out at all. Check out website premiumoutlets.com if you're interested. They are all over the country and they thrive. Lots of group tours and spin offs from conventions so our close proximity to SF and SJ would be a real advantage. Upscale outlet shoppers make a day of it and they are willing to drive a couple hours or more to get there. It has to be upscale to attract the shoppers. Pacifica would get jobs, sales tax, collateral spending in restaurants, etc. without the bill for all those public services. They visit, they shop and then they go home. It could work but time goes on and there are absolutely no indications that any of this will ever happen. The land is privately owned and we seem to be a city with zero development know how and without the money/IQ
to hire an economic development pro.
anon128 yeah, why should Nevada get all the good stuff? How about some chemical weapons beyond their expiration date? Mask that intermittent quarry stink?
The Pedro Point hippies chased the outlet mall that wanted go in where the Fresh & Easy is now.
@ 141, Fresh & Easy space = quarry = NO.
Outlet search = Pacifica = YES.
Negative spin = NIMBY = YOU = ?
anon 141 sounds more like the hippies got you on the run. Years ago. Excuse us if we don't follow you out of town.
It's private property and that means the current council and probably the next bunch too, haven't a clue about how to pursue development in the quarry or elsewhere in town. Mike O'Neill might have some skills in the area but he may not get in. Council waits to be approached by that mythical developer and spends foolishly while waiting. Stone seems to know this city's pathetic limitations in that area and his idea to hire an economic development person is smart. Best idea out of city hall in 20 years.
anon141, doubtful very doubtful that every mall developer has looked at the quarry. Even more doubtful that this city has taken a proactive role with the owner to make something happen. Wouldn't that be a place to start?
Anonymous said...
anon141, doubtful very doubtful that every mall developer has looked at the quarry. Even more doubtful that this city has taken a proactive role with the owner to make something happen. Wouldn't that be a place to start?
Developers hire people to look for properties. You know nothing on the subject.
Thus you are an angry hippie
"The Pedro Point hippies chased the outlet mall that wanted go in where the Fresh & Easy is now."
You are obviously clueless about what I'm talking about.
You are obviously clueless about what I'm talking about.
Sinai, you get an F on Pacifica History 101!
The problem is no one knows what you are talking about.
"Developers hire people to look for properties. You know nothing on the subject."
Peebles became aware of the Quarry when Daniel Grimm just happened to be driving by while visiting the Bay Area to scope out another potential development site. They didn't learn about it from a broker.
With the right council we can bypass the frogs and snakes and just approve quarry development. Who's going to stop us?
Anyone can speculate about outlet malls, amusement parks, and pipe dreams, but unless any of the people on this blog have experience with multi-million dollar development deals, it's all a bunch of silly navel-gazing.
Can we please change the subject to something that we can actually impact: changing the city's hostility towards development in this town?
They were looking at Nick's and the Hotel across the street first.
"Stone seems to know this city's pathetic limitations in that area and his idea to hire an economic development person is smart. Best idea out of city hall in 20 years." Anonymous, 2:30 PM
Yes, and lets see who is running for city council that will proactively advance significant economic development, support 3, and get them elected.
anon317 I'm neither angry nor a hippie and your rant speaks volumes about your limitations. You and council can continue waiting for that developer to find us. Wait a minute, are you a hippie?
Economic development deals get started in all kinds of ways. Pacifica is doing nothing to help the process. I'll vote for 3 new faces with the hope that they promptly revamp the planning commission and hire an economic development director immediately. Publicly put out the welcome mat for development. They also need to be open to outsourcing the PD because nothing else will keep us afloat and economic development takes years.
Seriously who wants to be on a city council that has to file bankruptcy?
With the right Council, who's going to stop approval of quarry development?
1. Requirement for voter approval of housing
2. California Coastal Commission
3. California Fish & Game
4. U.S. Fish & Wildlife
5. California Bureau of Mines
... a partial list ...
Our bankruptcy isn't imminent and it's not inevitable. Let's hope for and support candidates who believe they can improve the outcome, will work for the public good, and base their decisions on facts not popularity.
Actually, Anon 6:17, none of your listed agencies want to stop development of the Quarry. Especially the Mining Bureau as it is a continuing requirement for that site to be reclaimed. If that site isn't reclaimed and the invasive plant species removed, none of the native plants and animals will have a place to live.
Anonymous said...
Our bankruptcy isn't imminent and it's not inevitable. Let's hope for and support candidates who believe they can improve the outcome, will work for the public good, and base their decisions on facts not popularity.
You are on a F ticket ride at Disneyland. That is fantasy land, for those keeping score at home.
Anonymous said...
Our bankruptcy isn't imminent and it's not inevitable. Let's hope for and support candidates who believe they can improve the outcome, will work for the public good, and base their decisions on facts not popularity.
They filed a fiscal emergency which is the first step to bankruptcy!
For the person who keeps wanting to post anonymous personal attacks, I'll let you do it for awhile if you use your real name.
anon 726 true, but they also have stated that at current revenue and expense levels the reserve will be depleted in five years. I think the fiscal emergency declaration has more to do with union negotiations than imminent bankruptcy. Who knows with this bunch?
anon 657, you haven't been wearing your helmut on the rides, have you? You've become the resident old cranky pants.
Isn't that a helmet?
spellchecker 1
anon 0
We have only $900,000 in our general fund to run a city of 39,000. One emergency or law suit can wipe it out causing immediate insolvency.
Do you think that's a ploy to negotiate?
What are they saying Steve? Who are they attacking?
Interesting Rumors. Nihart had the idea about economic development coordinator first. Check the council minutes when the Economic Development Committee was re-established. She did that while putting up with grumbling from the others. Planning has been overhauled, she picked George White who has made great changes in the planning office. We could say more here, but the truth is, Stone needs Nihart so let's find two more to help them out.
"Nihart had the idea about economic development coordinator first.."
I'm sure Councilmember Nihart is at the center of many such city improvements. These defense of Councimember Stone comments have occurred because an anonymous person on this thread has gone out of their way to trash Stone.
It's OK to post personal attacks on people as long as you call them eco-nimby twirly dancing hippies.
"...eco-nimby twirly dancing hippies."
That's not a personal attack.
Kathy won't like this, but I thought it was worth trying to get it on fizpacifica.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/312807/burn-down-suburbs-stanley-kurtz
" The ultimate goal of the movement led by Kruglik, Rusk, and Orfield is quite literally to abolish the suburbs. Knowing that this could never happen through outright annexation by nearby cities, they’ve developed ways to coax suburbs to slowly forfeit their independence.
One approach is to force suburban residents into densely packed cities by blocking development on the outskirts of metropolitan areas, and by discouraging driving with a blizzard of taxes, fees, and regulations. Step two is to move the poor out of cities by imposing low-income-housing quotas on development in middle-class suburbs. Step three is to export the controversial “regional tax-base sharing” scheme currently in place in the Minneapolis–St. Paul area to the rest of the country. Under this program, a portion of suburban tax money flows into a common regional pot, which is then effectively redistributed to urban, and a few less well-off “inner-ring” suburban, municipalities."
Just a layman's observation, but wouldn't a proposed outlet center at the quarry site which would (hopefully) increase traffic conflict with the proposed Hwy 1 widening project which (hopefully) would alleviate traffic problems?
anon816 me me me me me I did I did it
Stone and Nihart are definitely keepers. Give them one or two more pro economy brethren and we will finally be able to ignore the enviro radicals like Pete, Jim and Sue have done to us for 10+ years.
"It's OK to post personal attacks on people as long as you call them eco-nimby twirly dancing hippies."
I don't see any names there. Who specifically was that attacking?
"... quite literally to abolish the suburbs."
From your own reference, Anonymous 9:49 AM, the issue is "Sustainable Housing and Communities", a long standing US Housing and Urban Development, HUD program. The suburbs and the cities benefit by cost and service sharing. Here's the HUD overview and mission statement.
"The mission of the Office of Sustainable Housing and Communities is to create strong, sustainable communities by connecting housing to jobs, fostering local innovation, and helping to build a clean energy economy.
In order to better connect housing to jobs, the office will work to coordinate federal housing and transportation investments with local land use decisions in order to reduce transportation costs for families, improve housing affordability, save energy, and increase access to housing and employment opportunities. By ensuring that housing is located near job centers and affordable, accessible transportation, we will nurture healthier, more inclusive communities which provide opportunities for people of all ages, incomes, races, and ethnicities to live, work, and learn together."
Given regional population growth, and the cooperative need for cost sharing, for mobility within regional areas (transportation, emergency, communication, commerce, civic, employment)-- I'm not sure what your objection is?
"... I did it." Anonymous 10:37 AM
"Credit where credit is due", so they say. Good to keep the record straight, don't you think?
And, through observable merit, so far I personally agree with Hutch at 10:38 AM about city council, and prospective city council candidates. Keep Stone and Nihart.
As long as we're dreaming. I'v always thought the quarry would make a great amphitheatre. Put up a tent like Mountain View, some bleachers and boom. The frogs can be parking valets.
A little chilly but that didn't keep Candlestick from selling out.
Good grief. Hire an economic development specialist? To settle today's tussle over who thunk it first, we can go back even farther to Joe Tanner ("what these idiots need is", uh huh, that's right), or earlier, Barbara Carr, and I kind of recall Cal Hinton mentioning the same idea or responding to somebody on it. It's not an original concept. It became very popular when redevelopment funds became available. Even now with that resource gone, the cities that are serious about economic growth know it's a critical role within city gov't. More important than ever as resources disappear. What's sad here is that we can't afford this person and IMO the concerted political will to get past that barrier just isn't there. But apparently someone knows how to squabble over the credit. Understandable in Pacifica, there's so very little of it to go around.
I'd like to see Stone with some new faces. See what he can do and if he can lead/persuade/convince.
Anonymous 12:53: You're right, it's not an original concept. On March 24, 2006, I went before the City Council and outlined a plan that included a Department of Economic Development:
Dear Mayor Digre, Mayor Pro Tem Dejarnatt and Council Members Hinton, Vreeland, and Lancelle:
I have lived in Pacifica for twenty-one years and during all that time, Pacifica has had a problem with not having enough money to do the everything it needs to do. I have given this problem some thought and would like to make the following suggestions that I believe will help solve the City's on-going financial crisis.
a. The City of Pacifica should create a Department of Economic Development. This department's job would be to:
b. Work with existing businesses on ways to improve and expand their services.
c. Identify vacant commercial properties and assist the owners marketing them to interested commercial developers.
d. Develop a plan for each of our existing commercial areas that makes them more attractive to consumers.
The Manor district is a prime example of an area in need of a major facelift. It is the gateway to our community from the North, and, frankly, does not give people the best impression of Pacifica. Each business district should be taken separately and developed with an eye towards making each one unique with its own pull for both local and out of town shoppers.
e. Work with the Planning Department, the Planning Commission, and the City Council to ensure that the zoning of undeveloped commercial properties not be changed so that these properties can be developed for businesses that would provide sales tax revenue to the City. This is a vital part of the plan to ensure Pacifica 's financial health. If commercial properties are rezoned residential, the City loses a steady sale tax revenue stream and trades it for a demand for city services that exceeds the property tax the City receives. (As a protection for commercial zoned property owners who believe that their property is incorrectly zoned, the submitting of a certified study that states the property has no commercial value might be grounds to allow the property to be rezoned.)
If the City of Pacifica were a business, the Department of Economic Development would be like an R&D/Marketing division, working to improve old products and develop new ones, identify resources and sell our product to the Bay Area and beyond.
2. The City Council should also consider setting up redevelopment districts in other parts of town as was done with the Rockaway Beach area.
Pacifica is in a lovely, scenic area and could easily attract shoppers from other locales. We need to work toward that goal and make Pacifica financially secure.
Sincerely,
Tom Clifford
New faces, old faces, old new faces..all saying the same thing...that was before my time, I was the only voice of reason,I didn't vote for that, I knew that would happen, staff did it, it's the economy, *&^%@# Vreeland!
I want to be clear I am not saying that I was the first to put these Ideas forward. Just that until now nobody has been listening.
The Premium Outlet Mall was Barbara Carr's idea.
Good ole Babs. A fellow Jerseyan. I miss her.
"...all saying the same thing.." Anonymous 3:07 PM
I'm not sure what you're saying beyond "garbage in, garbage out" Anonymous, it's confusing.
Tom Clifford actually did some thinking about global city economic development issues, and stated the obvious as well (that economic development planning for this city is needed). Tom's thoughtful 3/24/06 letter was sent to each city councilmember. He is a Planning Commissioner now, and was then. He is a contractor, so he thinks about such issues.
City General Manager Steve Rhodes did bring-in 1) a redevelopment consultant, and 2) the General Plan revision. So, Tom was on the same page and timing with that progress. Outstanding, the city does need a focus on economic development, and that finally is a #1 goal as of a few weeks ago. Hopefully a professional director hired to focus on the practical global economic development issues of this city will be the next step. A city council that will cooperate with this director is also needed.
Its frustrating, 6 years later. City council majority did not support quarry development. The city is broke. Projects are delayed or not happening. Beach Boulevard and the extended care facility may happen.
anon816 you do Nihart no favors by making her sound insecure and whiny. Your use of "Nihart had the idea...first" is misguided. Nobody cares who brought the idea up first and everyone knows it wasn't original with either one of them. Stone apparently knows that. He's not making any claims. They both need each other and I want to continue to think that Pacifica needs them both.
Barbara Carr understood a balance sheet and she was a pragmatic, canny Scot.
Remember what happened to Maxine Gonzalves and Barbara Carr when they tried to find out what was going on at the Art Center, a city subsidised building. They were tarred, feathered and run out of town by the Nancy Hall group. Wonder what would happen today because you are right, Barbara is the one who wanted a discount mall in Pedro Point.
Tom Clifford you are very clear. The idea is an old one and it's a good one. I'd like to see a top notch Director of Economic Development so let's hope they don't water it down to some co-ordinator job to shuffle papers. We already have plenty of those.
Not a disount mall please!!! An upscale Premium Outlets Center. No dollar stores, cigarette stores, cheapo grocery, none of that. Not if we want it to be a smashing success. Upscale outlets only.
anon442 once the regime change has occurred council should direct staff to review and report on all the leases at the Sanchez. Rates should be updated, utilities clarified, inequities and oversights resolved. We're not rich!
I don't remember Barbara Carr saying she wanted a cheapo discount mall at Pedro Point. She was talking about an outlet mall in the quarry.
That sounds more like Barbara Carr.
Ooooooooh!! Thank goodness it's premium!
While we're makin up things, can I get a pony ride?
Tom
And many people told city hall they are going to be facing bankruptcy. Did they listen, umm no
Anonymous said...
anon442 once the regime change has occurred council should direct staff to review and report on all the leases at the Sanchez. Rates should be updated, utilities clarified, inequities and oversights resolved. We're not rich!
Bravo!!!!!!!, no more hand outs to the hippies!
the assisted living center is a crock; do you have any idea how much these places cost? usually around $5000 a month;
so the argument that was made in favor that pacificans need a place to house their seniors is not true; how many of us do you think can afford this, and insurance does not cover (unless you are rich enough to afford long term care insurance);
if they were going to build something for the seniors, they should have built another building of apt's for seniors, this would have made more sense for this area;
and they should leave the damn library there instead of building a grand new "great" library way on the other side of town that a lot of these same seniors that people pro-port to care so much about will be able to get to!
anon 1103 That argument was always weak. Guess people thought they needed that personal appeal. The place isn't intended for Pacificans specifically. It's a business intended for whomever can pay whether it's private insurance, medicare, etc. That's the better argument and we need all the business and jobs we can get. Let's hope it gets built soon.
Anon 1103 said "$5000 a month for assisted living, how many of us do you think can afford this"
About 75 of our police fire and city workers that are making $100,000+.
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