The San Francisco Examiner/Peter Henderson and Jim Christie/Reuters/Kevin Bartram, 8/13/12. "Stockton bankruptcy leads to pension clash."
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| On the hook: city, CalPERS, or insurers? |
.... A unit of MBIA Inc. told the court that the city’s failure to ask for concessions from its biggest creditor, CalPERS, showed that it had not negotiated in good faith, and it argued that the city’s plan for recovery was doomed because it did not touch pensions.
.... Assured Guaranty argued that the plan was especially unfair because the city issued pension-obligation bonds to make payments to CalPERS and now wants to abandon the bonds. That would leave the insurer covering $100 million of principal.
“The city took the bondholders’ money to give to Calpers, and now proposes to leave those funds with Calpers and pay Calpers everything else Calpers decides the city owes,” it wrote. Read Article.
Submitted by Jim Alex
Posted by Kathy Meeh
29 comments:
I get a kick out of big government Union people when they say "you can't cut our pensions, we have an agreement"
Welcome to the real world. Private Union pensions have been cut for years. There is really no protection at all for the rest of us. If you don't like it then go no SSI.
It's time for Ca to cut present and future unfunded pension obligations to a level more in line with SSI which is about $2000 per month at age 65+.
It's all a sad state of affairs but I agree with you. I'm also very fed up with the public union expectation that we the public should be pushed further into debt just to afford them a pension negotiated in private between themselves and other public employees and officials.
We owe them nothing, they on the other hand owe all of us an apology for all the drama their collective financial rigging has cause everyone.
Something has to give and the weight of the issue clearly points at the vast array of public employees as the givers.
Todd I don't see things changing with Democrats controlling the Legislature in California. They will never stab their Union buddies in the back.
Hmm this is a lesson for Pacifica. We have a 20 million bond out there for pensions.
Bray, we get it you have paycheck envy.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you think city hall or caltrans cares what you say!
Read the paper Anon 1107. Cities are just starting to file bankruptcy because of outrageous pensions, wages and benefits. In turn that's pulling money from programs for the poor and services for all of us.
And we are not going to pay any more in taxes to prop up this non functioning system.
The pension Tsunami is just beginning. Brown will soon be forced to make bigger and bigger cuts to these unsustainable union contracts until they are more inline with what the average taxpayer gets.
Negotiated in private by and with other public employees and with the very unsavory blessing of politicians!! That's the problem. Could there be any more powerful tool for these employers to use than public pressure? I doubt it, and yet the secrecy continues. The time for ridiculous charades, like the one in Pacifica, is past. This is financial suicide. The final irony? We may be rescued by the insurance industry. Rest assured they will do everything in their considerable power to avoid getting stuck with the pension turd the politicians have dumped on the taxpayer.
City Hall and Caltrans? Pretty clear which side those leeches are on. And unless you're getting a public employee pension you should be outraged at them not at Bray on this one.
I agree, unfortunately all these changes must be voluntarily taken by the public sector because of protective laws, ideology and governing systems that exist. It really is a public sector RECO kind of organized fleecing issue. Since the revenues are not there and wont be the public sector employees feel above the economy and expect people who on average make two to four times less than they do to somehow magically pay up.
No the public sector can go jump in a lake. Modest wage/benefit/pension reductions will solve all these issues. Time for our suckling public sector to grow up and be adults about this. Who do they think they are battling? Big Daddy Warbucks? Hell, BDW doesn't even pay taxes much less contribute to their livelihood. No the folks they are oppessing are people far poorer than them.
I'm sorry but the respect I once held these folks in is long gone because of all this needless BS. Public folks, Y'awl need to grow a pair and man up. Please stop oppressing the poor and take the damn pay cuts.
Hutch, are you really Todd Bray. You OCD people keep typing the same nonsense day after day.
Had the quarry, old waste water treatment plant and lowest 1/3rd of Mori's Point been built out Pacifica wouldnt have a revenue problem.
Let's dream. Be revolutionary and do away with public employee pension plans. Just their pension plans. Make those who are currently retired the final group to receive those old pensions because those pensions are dinosaurs draining the life out of this country. When the current group of retirees die off over the next 25 years the problem dies with them. For public employees working today and future employees, roll their fat pension contributions (past,present, future)into the suffering social security system. If an employee doesn't want to "roll" then pay them off at a reduced cash-out value and set that little dinosaur free. The infusion of contributions and contributing workers would create a healthier social security sytem and who knows, those benies might go up for us all. Just dreaming...
Bray, crawl back under the Highway 1 Bridge you do not have a job to take a pay cut
pay check envy
California will need to cut CURRENT retirees also.
Some of these people are getting multiple pensions plus SSI and paid healthcare for life costing the State billions.
Sorry but I don't feel bad cutting a retired government worker taking home 6K-$10K a month or more when all we get is about $2200 from Social Security and we're on medicare.
Oh yeah, why don't you ask Stockton if a bunch of bldg and development and all those houses saved them. Ridiculous. No immunity from a global recession comes with development. None. Your green-tinted realtor's glasses are messing with your vision.
I know anon155, you want to hurt them but cutting current retirees is where you get the push back. Be honest, you just want to punish them. You can't. Back to my ideal world where we leave the currently retired folks alone, offer a discounted pension cash-out, or let them collect til they die. End of that problem. And no, angry anon, you can't kill them all off. They're really not the big problem anyway, although we, the scummy politicians, and the unions all get hung up on them. It's the folks in the workforce now and in the years to come who will keep us broke. They also represent a way out of this mess and a way to fix social security. Take away their pensions from the unions and you weaken the unions tremendously. Let the employees keep their unions for their work rules, etc. but put them and their juicy pension contributions into social security and you save the world! Or start a revolution.
"Let the employees keep their unions for their work rules, etc. but put them and their juicy pension contributions into social security.." Anonymous 2:33 PM
And once that's done, improve social security. Current payout about 40% of lifetime earnings. Bring it up to at least 60%.
Holy Cow!!
Just imagine that money put into the hands of American consumers to save, to spend, pay taxes on, invest. Unprecedented real economic growth.
It is also the people that are double or triple dipping That is the problem NOW Anon 233.
And the one's padding their last year of work so they get a bigger retirement check.
All these abuses (though legal) by current retirees are costing the State billions in unfunded pensions.
Just imagine that money put into the hands of American consumers to save, etc." Anonymous 3:27 PM
If most people can get at their money and spend it, they will. They will spend their saved money, or their kids or others will. Then there will be no retirement. No retirement and more homeless, sick and old people living in poverty, some or many living in the street. What you are proposing is a nightmare. When you're older you MAY understand, or not.
Private sector pensions for current retirees aren't safe.
Why should public pensions be sacred? My Union has already reduced benefits because our pension is in crisis.
Why are they protected? Oh yeah, because politicians like Jerry Brown are beholden to the public Unions.
It all stinks.
Hutch, we're all just speculating here, dreaming. Today's pension problem and tomorrow's might look the same but they are not. The solutions differ as well. Compromise is going to be required and the idea of a sunset or grandfathering of benefits for current pensioners is certainly a compromise--meant to remove their resistance to change that promises bigger rewards for all of us down the road. In any event, the political will to do what you suggest or what I suggest does not exist at this time. All one needs do to understand that is listen to the bullshit issuing from our "silly hall" on the subject. It only gets worse at higher levels of government. More's the pity.
Kathy, if it's in their new, improved social security it is their retirement. Am I being clear?
Pensions equal votes and politicians would step on their dying mother to get a vote so they can stay in office. As we've seen here in our wacky little town they also directly benefit from the union benefits like cafeteria cash,
health insurance and who knows what else. It isn't the Democrats or the Republicans...it's all of them. No political will to step away from the trough. Prepare yourself for more taxes packaged and sold to us with a slick new look. Consultants are all over it.
Ask longtime UAL employees how safe pensions are. They were unsustainable so they got cut and restructured. That's exactly what needs to be done with public employee pensions. The sooner the better.
There were over 22 million local, state, and federal government workers on the job in 2010. One for every 13 residents of the US.
Add them and their contributions to social security. Should be enough to save and improve social security for everyone. If only..
Greece here we come
Santorini is beautiful.
Public employee pensions will have to be dealt with if this country is to ever really recover. Too big to be left in the hands of unions and "the employers" they're in bed with. Social security could sure use that money.
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