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City Council Agenda direct, 1/28/13. Items listed may include embedded pdf documents, illustration and photographs of interest.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
Monday, January 28, 2013
City Council meeting, Monday, January 28, 2013
City Council Agenda direct, 1/28/13. Items listed may include embedded pdf documents, illustration and photographs of interest.
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50 comments:
Pay attention to the Plover consideration item. Outside agencies are dictating terms that aren't applied to other Plover habitates. West side fencing would be an eyesore and take away from the beach experience we all say is one of our economic engines. Plover people will be out in force tonite touting any number of claims. It really boils down to: do we want a fence on the west side of the dunes?
I get so tired of the NIMBYs talking out of both sides of their mouths... They're worse than John Kerry.
"I was against the traffic jam near the quarry before I supported it."
I wonder If Mary Ann, will be at council. A little birdie told me that she had a little mishap the other day.
mishap? you talkin' her re-election on this sinking ship of fools?
@740 Haha, You ain't seen nothing yet. This city could have avoided all this if they had just put up some appropriate signs years ago and made even a token effort at ticketing off-leash dogs. Every council over the last 10 years has known this. Beach restrictions of any type are unpopular with Pacificans so a succession of councils has done nothing. Negligence and mismanagement as usual. Plover people have the feds and the state on their side and that's where they took the issue. Now, the outside agencies will dictate the terms. The Coastal Commission will require the plovers be protected with funds collected from paid parking at LM Beach. Fences, signs, rangers, etc. And you know that's just what council wants because then they can claim all those beach use restrictions and the others that will surely follow were forced upon them. Poor things.
And all this drama is on behalf of roosting plovers. Worst case scenario...keep the dogs and especially the people away, and it's entirely possible we'll have breeding plovers on LMBeach. That's the true goal of any conservation measure. Then, we can kiss that beach good bye for 8 or 9 months of the year. It's happened on other CA beaches.
What? Sinkhole swallows
politician? Crumbling Pacifica infrastructure blamed for mishap.
was that little birdie a plover? you can't believe a word they say.
You can trust me
Oh so I should trust you Mr. Plover? Well, based on tonight's 4 to 1 passage of beach restrictions, including that unsightly west side fencing, all for your protection, maybe I should trust and fear you, Mr. Plover, sir. You clearly have friends in high places...as well as all the usual suspects in the audience. All but the earnest Mayor Stone who lobbied hard, but unsuccessfully, for a more measured approach. The kid's moderate suggestions made sense since we've done zilch, nada, zero in the way of plover protection til now. I believe he described the proposed measures as overkill...I know, how insensitive! He looked like a lonely guy up there. Ervin looked confused and she's the smartest of the lot. Digre made the motion, no surprise, O'neill seconded, Nihart also voted for it. Best we can hope for is no funding available, but I think the FOPs (friends of plovers) will cover it.
Anyhow, you got the beach my fine feathered friend. Can't wait for the spin on this one...we had to do it, no choice, Coastal Commission will yank our paid parking approval blahblahblah. Bunch of hippies.
A quick recap
Karen said ummm alot less. Good Job Karen
Mary Ann. Tripped and fell and broke her wrist in Washington DC. Sure Mary Ann. I bet the real story is legend-ary!!!
Sue is just Sue
Len is just Mayor Len mummbles and bumbles and says look at all I have done. A Vreeland Mini Me
ONeil sounds like a weird message from India, like a robot on a recorded message on a telemarketing call.
A few of the nobees showed up to whine about the open space.
I for one am delighted at the prospect of the plovers getting "symbolic fencing". I was there just yesterday and watched several people walk right through the plover's habitat. They surely meant no harm, but had no idea that the plovers were there.
".. the plovers getting "symbolic fencing". Ian Butler, 7:34 am
Comments from the public included "this has been 5 years in discussion, what took so long?" And "these movable fences exist all along the coast." Similar to you, Ian, I am also glad to see movable fencing during plover roosting season move forward.
The effort to support balanced (human, dog) beach activity with protection of the plovers, and the need for NO permanent fence structures was made clear. And finally, this time there was no polarized comments from either the public or the city council on this issue. Mayor Len Stone thought the extent of the fencing could be less intrusive into public areas than approved by the coastal commission (I think). We'll see, and if so hopefully that might be adjusted.
messing with this town's only tourist draw. brilliant. stone was right on this one. these measures are overkill and go beyond what is required. symbolic fencing? make no mistake it is a fence and it will cut off a significant portion of beach from Crespi north for most of the year. placement and movement of this fence under control of the bird groups from what we heard last night. not to worry because when the plovers go off reservation or beachgoers come too close (guaranteed), these folks have more fence!
spin it any way you want this was a total sellout by council.
we've entered a kumbaya phase
must be close to the end
it's all good
Eliminate the disturbances from people and dogs and we'll be able to have breeding plovers on our beach. It's happened elsewhere where protections were put in place and vigorously enforced.
Ask the people in Lompoc how they feel about plovers.
OK, we're switching to a plover economy. You surfers and beach people don't spend enough so we're going with plovers and the enviros.
Prosperity is just around the corner. Make it a shuttle stop! Just remember you have to remain in the vehicle, in the parking lot.
The beach is off limits.
Guess Digre's not so irrelevant afterall. Definitely got her plover pals taken care of.
Ervin and Nihart looked and sounded confused or acted that way. O'Neill did his own thing out there at the end of the dais. Stone got ignored. Couldn't get back-up from Rhodes.
Poor Mayor Len was pummelled by plovers.
This council=same as councils past.
The city is broke and they are worried about a stupid bird.
Ano Nuevo State Park....
http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=523 is a big attraction, to those who would want to see the mating and birthing cycles of elephant sea lions, drawing many busloads of school children and tourist groups. Who knows, maybe with the docents that Lynn Adams spoke of, such an operation could be facilitated here around the Snowy Plover. Plover people, flying in from all over, would drive, to some extent, restaurant and possibly hotel traffic. As long as it does not interfere with other beach activities (e.g. surfing) and local tax payers dont' need to chip in for it, I say, these birds in the bushes can use the hand with their symbolic fences, and we get a little bit of bang for little or no bucks.
Are you nuts anon 117? You're grasping at straws, and you don't even sound convinced. What we get from council's failure is an expandable plover corral on a busy urban beach. A small beach. Expandable plover corral. Not some remote, rarely-visited beach down the coast, but an urban beach that is heavily used by locals and visitors. An expandable plover preserve is incompatible with tourists, fishermen, surf contests and surfers at the popular north end of the beach as well as any other beachgoer. You get the fence, then you need a buffer zone, and then more room, etc. The idea is to reduce the disturbances to encourage breeding. Breeding plovers would amp up the restrictions. A tourist attraction? Hardly compatible with the needs of the birds for quiet, undisturbed surroundings. keeping people away is the whole idea, isn't it? It'll draw the kinds of birders you saw speaking at the council meeting. Did they look like big spenders to you? Brown baggers in grandpa cars or Priuses. They'll be the docents shooing people away and calling the rangers. School kids? Much too noisy for our delicate little avian friends and also not noted for their big wallets. Gaaaghh. Other than Stone this Council didn't even put up much of a fight. They should of and they had plenty of ammo. And now this disaster gets the kumbaya spin from people who know better. Gracious in defeat or political face-saving? Keep that song handy people because with each failure this "new and improved" council will give you opportunity aplenty to belt it out.
@117 You should know that sea lions are really nothing like snowy plovers. Sea lions are massive, rugged, and often bellicose exhibitionists while plovers are tiny, shy and retiring, and require isolation, solitude, and privacy to survive and flourish. Lots of isolation, solitude, and privacy. Lots and lots.
so uh fireworks on the beach, definitely not, right? bonfires?
ditto. volleyball, frisbee, surf contests, dog-walking, weddings and photogs? no more north of the crespi entrance.
well how about a wienie roast?
oh council is busy you say?
Anon 407, you have a way with words that tickles me with delight. (e.g. "brown baggers in grampa cars or Priuses") OH MY! I was being a wee bit sarcastic, couldnt you tell?. Sincerely, writer of Anon 117
That many years ago, the eco-plover protection conversation began with no dogs and no humans on Linda Mar Beach. So what happened Monday, including from the audience (mostly Shore Bird Alliance and other eco-NIMBIES), was a big improvement FMV.
The fencing area may have been determined by the coastal commission, but if a smaller area is just as effective (as Mayor Len Stone thought it might be), council should revisit the requirement. Shrink rather than grow the fence. And caution to allow only plover roosting (visits) should be a given, rather than any additional attempt to promote plover nesting (raising babies). Plover nesting could cause humans and dogs to lose access to our urban beach. And that mistake is an underlying concern to most of us. That language should be clarified in the city requirement as well.
@Kathy, no shite Sherlock! Dumbest move by a Pacifica City Clowncil in 25 years, or maybe more. After years of trying, the birders and enviros finally managed to outmaneuver the city by changing their approach, ie, don't say the D-word and don't talk about the real goal of any conservation program--breeding. It's done. Can't unring that bell and good luck reining in birder enviro efforts to encourage breeding on LMBeach. Clearly, in a comparison of birder enviros and the Clowncil, the enviros are the smarter species.
Writer of anon 117 and 636. Oh, you were being sarcastic. Sigh of relief here. Big. You see when I read your post about Ano Nuevo and the sea lions and similar potential of tourism dollars in our plovers, I was damn sure I was reading council's latest wonky economic plan for Pacifica. You know, a Plover Economy...probably suggested by one of those crackerjack consultants, and I'm not being sarcastic.
Warmest regards!
Ok Kathy so who gets to chaperone the plovers so they uh don't reproduce once they get all comfy in their very private preserve? You going out there? Do you know what to look for? Ready to duke it out with the enviro-nimby-birders
safeguarding the love-nest? Breeding has always been the goal and breeding will happen. Bet on it. Recreational beach use and breeding plovers do not mix. Who do you think will lose that match-up?
"...after years of trying, the birders and enviros finally managed to outmaneuver the city by changing their approach.." Anonymous 7:06 PM
It seems the "enviros" have outmaneuvered the city for maybe 30+ years through various approaches, and more recently they were "clownsil majority" from 2002. So, here we are in economic DOA, waiting for city resurrection through the new city council. Its a good trick for them if it happens.
Do plovers taste like quail? Or like chicken?
fat chance for resurrection with this lot
clowncil--that's perfect for them
i nominate council to be the plover chaperones. all 5 out there disturbing the love nests. i'd pay to see that. pay big.
"... who gets to chaperone the plovers so they uh don't reproduce once they get all comfy in their very private preserve?" Anonymous 7:28 PM.
Interesting issue. With all that additional "economic benefit from eco-tourism", maybe the city can afford to hire a couple of off-leash nosy, barking dogs. Plover harassment alternatives are for the city to figure-out.
As you say, the city has moved plover paradise forward. But the plover environment is still a sometimes noisy urban beach, so maybe roosting will stay in vogue. If not, there must be a supportive grant to pay a consultant to study that. We do not want to lose our urban beach, only a "bird brain" would think that's a good idea.
Haha, Kathy, true, but this council has proven with this debacle that the birds are not the only thing with bird brains. I do like your idea about hiring a couple off-leash canines to "flush" the area now and then. Call them consultants and council will schedule a photo op and interview.
Ten years from now, maybe sooner, no people on that beach for 8 or 9 months of the year because recreational beach use and breeding plovers don't mix. And councils' almost comic bungling has put us on our way to breeding plovers. All this for a bird species that isn't endangered but merely threatened and even that is scientifically debatable. Why worry about it? We don't need an economy here. The beach was nice while it lasted, but by then I'll have retired to Hawaii where unlike Pacifica they clearly know that the word 'economy' isn't just the size of a rental car or the class of airline seat you sat in to get there.
@800 you want to know if plovers taste like quail or chicken? Probably could ask those guys in homeless camp just off the bike trail. they have one of those little hibachis.
Julie Lancelle is real happy about the plover corral. This whole thing was one of her pet projects. Good job new council!
@Anonymous on January 30, 2013 at 9:52 PM:
You are too smart to post on Fix Pacifica. Way too smart! Seriously.
"All this for a bird species that isn't endangered but merely threatened and even that is scientifically debatable." Anonymous 1/30/13, 9:52 PM.
Western Snowy Plover. "Official Status: Threatened, the Pacific Coast population of the western snowy plover is federally listed under the Endangered Species Act of 1973 as threatened. The western snowy plover is a Bird Species of Special Concern in California."
Thanks for that clarification, Anonymous. And, Anonymous 9:09 AM, there are a whole lot of smart (and funny) anonymous comments on this thread. I'm not going to say you may not be able to keep up, but...
Take heart, the plovers are here to stay. The rest of us, maybe not. This is Pacifica and this IS how we live.
Ah yes, an expandable plover corral on our busy urban beach.
Wonderful, really. With rangers and zealous docents on patrol to encourage breeding--among the plovers, not among the rangers and docents. If they breed, and nature usually finds a way, will we really need those parking meters? Would the welcome mat be out for those 8 or 9 months of the year?
Buy cheap meters.
Julie and Sneaky Pete are channeling the new council.
We must protect the hills.
We must protect the plovers.
We must continue to keep the town bankrupt.
And by golly, they are doing it! The lunacy of their plover corral might just define this bunch. Oh, from time to time they'll throw a bone to their critics. You know, show up at ribbon-cuttings for another nail salon or take-out place, talk the pro-growth talk, whine and mewl about no money to do anything more, conduct more studies and hire more consultants, proportionately, than Stanford. In other words, they will be indistinguishable in style and substance from their recent predecessors--well, other than that plover corral--that's a real doozy. It'll be quite a monument. Empty beach with a fence around some invisible birds. Sooo Pacifica.
@139 I get what you're saying, but I think the correct New Age way to say it is that the new council is channeling Pete and Julie. They've gotta know which direction they're channeling. Wouldn't want a head-on out there. What a pile-up that would be.
Ommmmmm
there is no such thing as a western snowy plover. it is an invention of the envirowackos to take control of the beach. new city council just proved they are no better than the old city council.
yeah, you think those nimby endorsements might have meant something in that last election?
maybe? right out in the open. that was a clue. kumbaya baby!
well shoot 1022 now what do i do with all these recipes?
ask the people in Lompoc if the plovers are real?
1109, do tell us about plovers in Lompoc.
@1156 I googled Lompoc and plovers and it looks like the plovers own the beaches in and near Lompoc from March through September which is breeding season. Important to note we do not yet have breeding plovers. Ours our roosting here during the winter months. Lompoc is about our size with 42,000 people but they have an economy--tourists, vineyards, stores,nearby AF Base and federal prison. Doubtful that any of their beaches ever get as busy as Linda Mar. We are more urban. Their plover experience started with the Plover Recovery Plan more than a decade ago. Same Recovery Plan being cited by our local birders although I don't think Pacifica is officially included. Don;t know but the species is still protected. Again, note that these are breeding plovers in Lompoc. So far, Linda Mar has roosting plovers. Talk to oldtime Pacifica birders and beachgoers and they'll tell you plovers did breed on Linda Mar in the 70's. I seem to recall there was a letter to that effect attached to a letter from the Shorebird Alliance in support of Pacifica's application to the CA Coastal Commission for paid parking. All public records. The Alliance wants rangers to protect the plovers and parking would pay for that, maybe, so they lent their support. The Coastal Commission supports plover habitat protection on Linda Mar Beach. I would agree with other posters that breeding is the goal of any species conservation and recovery plan. The serious birders will tell you that. It's certainly the goal in Half Moon Bay. Lompoc residents have tried for over a decade to change their situation with no success. Some of their beaches work on a violation system, ie, rack up a certain # of plover-related violations and the beach is closed for the rest of the nesting season. Fines are hefty and federal. Coyotes, a natural predator of plovers, love the set-up and are frequently seen boldly dining out on the people-free beaches. At least you can see the coyotes.
Anyhow, plenty of stuff archived with the Lompoc Record and Santa Barbara Independent and elsewhere. It's very clear where we're headed. Might take awhile but breeding is the goal and breeding is not compatible with recreational use of an urban beach.
The plovers will win the argument.
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