Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Past city councilmember Jim Vreeland has apparently died


From  Pacifica Riptide. "On October 4, Pedro Point Surf Club honors the life of the late Jim Vreeland. Vreeland served 15 years on the Pacifica City Council, and is remembered for his work to protect and improve the city's natural environment and outdoors recreation, especially the beaches and trails." No further details at this time.

Posted by Kathy Meeh

103 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sad ending to Jim's story. Heartfelt condolences to his wife and children.

Hutch said...

I'm sorry to hear that. I wish his family well.

Steve Sinai said...

I'm also sorry to hear that.

Chris Porter said...

Jim and I had some very intense discussions on many topics and when he was well he would listen and retort it what I felt was a respectful and insightful manner.I feel extreme sadness for Lori and her great sons. Jim, I hope you are in a peaceful place my friend and hang ten on one of the best waves in the next set coming in.

Jim Wagner said...

Chris, heartfelt, sincere, and I couldn't have said it better.
Rest in Peace, Jim, and my prayers to you and your family.

Anonymous said...

When you get right down to it, very few people manage to really change the public landscape of a town. We're all focused on our own little spaces. Jim Vreeland did change the face of Pacifica with Linda Mar Beach and now the 100-year bridge over San Pedro Creek at Highway One. That's a fine legacy.

Anonymous said...

Not to be cold but does anyone know cause of death? When? Where? I believe he was battling some demons.

Anonymous said...

I only knew the guy only for about the short span of 5 minutes, he seemed like a cool dude. I heard lots of tales of how he could be a monster, but I found him to be genuinely nice. Based on the positive experience I had with him, and his achievements and impact on town, I think it would be fitting to name something in town after him...a trail or maybe even the beach improvements.... anything could fit. It's too bad he went down in flames, so to speak, checking out of Pacifica and ultimately life. Anytime a life is cut short, we mourn on the lost potential and celebrate the good parts. Long ago there was a guy in Louisiana named Huey Long who stirred up a bunch of people and was assisinated, an ultimate populist, he had the makings of greatness, but had a dark dark side....Huey Long's dying words were, "God, don't let me die, I have so much to do."

Chris Fogel said...

I am sorry to hear of Jim's passing. I never had the opportunity to know him or meet him.

I called him to task for his absences from City Council meetings, but at the time I did had no idea that he wasn't physically able to attend. When I found out a year or so later that was dealing with very serious health issues, I felt absolutely awful about it.

I have great respect for anyone who serves our city. Jim did it for 15 years and was the subject of a lot of unwarranted personal attacks during that time. I hope on those bright, warm days, when you gaze down Linda Mar Beach and see the hundreds of visitors and residents enjoying our beautiful landscape, that everyone will remember Jim and the contributions he made to our city.

I thank Jim for his service to our community and wish his family peace during these difficult days.

Anonymous said...

I'm not going to badmouth the poor man here but please don't suggest making him into some kind of hero. and naming anything after him.

Kathy Meeh said...

Chris Fogel 857, wish I could share your sentiments, but that's not possible. As you said, you didn't know him, (and neither did some of us except for his public life and actions on city council).

But 15 years on city council, faking an inadequate city budget, and ducking the structural economic needs in this city, doesn't make some of us love him more now that he's dead. Condolences to his family, his spouse and children growing up without their father.

Anonymous said...

I think just about anyone can step back and see the tragedy in this, politics aside.

Hutch said...

I have to agree with Kathy. I feel bad for the guy and his family. I'll just leave it at that out of respect for the deceased.

Anonymous said...

RIP and condolences to his family.
but..........
Please do not re-write history.
Let it be.
'nuff said?

Elephant Man said...

Why should you feel bad for calling him out on his unexcused absences Chris? This was like stealing from the taxpayers. He was doing the city a disservice by not fulfilling his duties and still collecting benefits. The rest of the council should be ashamed too for not reporting it and not removing him after missing 3 consecutive meetings until public outcry became too much.

Anonymous said...

The man is dead. If you were taught no respect for that fact, then how about some compassion for his family? This stuff could very easily cause them pain. Resist that temptation. Let it go.

Anonymous said...

I've always admired Jim for the great friend and coworker he was. Not many people step up and accomplish as much as he did. It's difficult to hear critical comments on a post sharing his passing. This is not the place for that. Let's honor his life and contributions. I, for one, deeply appreciate all that he did for our city and hope to see his name on a plaque somewhere around town.

Steve Sinai said...

It wouldn't bother me if the city named a trail or something after him. Maybe that little pocket park on the south end of Palmetto.

I disagreed with him on a lot of things, but I'm sure he was doing what he thought was best for the city.

Anonymous said...

He changed the landscape in this town and very few have done that. Seems really petty, even by Pacifica standards, to deny him a memorial, a park, a trail, maybe that new bridge. I think council will do the right thing and move us along.

Truth Teller said...

Chris, 530 & 610 You know very well that in many of our minds here on Fix he was symbol of what's wrong mainly because he DID concentrate on trails not our economy. He did not transform Linda Mar Beach. That was done by all council persons and many other groups. You know damn well how we here feel about him so you are just trying to goat us into going off. If you don't want to hear how most of us feel here on Fix Pacifica then go back over to riptide where you all agree with each other that he should be canonized. Or just leave it at rest in peace. But don't try and re-write history.

Anonymous said...

700 You assume those that suggest compassion, decency and some type of memorial in Pacifica somehow miss the downside to that era and its repercussions. Not so. Really, not at all.

Anonymous said...

The man's lasting legacy is that we're still concentrating on trails instead of revenue. Right here, right now.

Anonymous said...

He grievously harmed a lot of good people in his relatively short stay in Pacifica.
Stop making him a hero.
Let the robots on RIPTIDE rewrite history.
They're experts at it.
When Curtis goes they'll want to rename our city after him.

Anonymous said...

Just a FYI, I'm neutral on this, they are talking "Vreeland State Beach" on riptide.

Anonymous said...

It's Tod Bray, "King of Great Ideas and most needy attention getter in Pacifica" who's pushing for the Vreeland state beach name change.
The truth is, that In classic political gamesmanship, Vreeland glued his name onto the Linda Mar Beach revitalization just as it was nearing completion after decades of hard work by local citizens.
Don't fall for this "re-write".

Anonymous said...

I am ok with a trail or a bench with his name on it. Or a plaque at the beach but the guy did just as much harm to people, as he did good.

I feel bad for his two boys.

Anonymous said...

Good god this site has gotten even meaner since I last visited. I'd suggest thinking about the phrase 'If you've nothing nice to say, say nothing at all' but that would be lost on a few of you.

The man is dead. His family and friends are grieving. How would you feel if the person closest to you died and was treated this way, where all your friends and neighbors can see?

Why does berating a dead man make you feel so good? HE CAN'T ANNOY YOU ANY MORE, so WHY take the time to run him down on a public forum, where his loved ones will be able to see it FOREVER? And I mean that - these comments will still be searchable when you're on your death beds.

Shame on you.

Hutch said...

744 I didn't really see mean spirited berating. But it is well known that that person was not well liked on this site so when people start exalting some greatness it is no wonder some speak their mind. I didn't go over to Riptide and make any comment, maybe the regulars over there should do likewise here.


Personally I wouldn't mind either if they named a small trail after him.

Kathy Meeh said...

Well Hutch 809, Anonymous 744 has overreacted, and brought the NIMBY posse with her. They're in the spam jail, unless Sheriff Sinai releases them. So what we know of that is that 744 is probably not Saint Vreeland's x-spouse.

Apparently 744 did not read the comments here, prior to going into overdrive rage-- otherwise, she might have known the comments have been relatively measured and tempered.

Name something after Jim Vreeland for the influence he had on this city? Sure, we should keep this conversation real: my nomination is the cumulative city debt and neglected city infrastructure. Vreeland made an important contribution to city deterioration during his tenure on city council.

Again, we are all sorry for whatever happened to Jim Vreeland, the lives close to him, and those who will be affected or impacted. He was in his early 50's, and dying prior to old age is a tragedy.

ian butler said...

I am stunned by the tone deaf insensitivity on display in this thread.

If I'm reading Kathy's post correctly, she and Steve have refused to publish some comments critical of this insensitivity (or as Kathy put it, put them in "spam jail").

May I remind you of this line at the top of the main page, "Unlike some other Pacifica blogs, Fix Pacifica won't bury viewpoints we disagree with."

All opposing viewpoints should therefore be released from "spam jail" so we can all see for ourselves what FixPacifica chooses not to publish.

Otherwise your stated policy needs to be updated to truthfully reflect your actual policy.

Kathy Meeh said...

Ian 820, tone deaf? Then you also have the opportunity to change the tone.

Since you chose rather to focus on "nuts and bolts of commenting", the "viewpoint" you cite was an Anonymous (744) temper tantrum and attack on others who had made comments on this thread, immediately followed by a few pile on attack comments.

Such comments are not expressions of a "viewpoint". They are rubbish which belong in spam, covered in the blog comment policy description (upper left) as: 1) personal attacks against individual blog participants, and 3) attempts to turn conversations into grade-school playground brawls.

Anonymous said...

If it hasn't been made abundantly clear to everyone by now, the operators of this website are not interested in honest and forthright conversations involving multiple viewpoints. They are only interested in broadcasting their own hateful speech. They do so because they have no other avenue for it; who else would print this dreck?

Requests from letter writers whose letters are reprinted without their permission are ignored. The death of a public servant becomes an opportunity for shameless mockery. The norms of any common decency do not exist here.

And the worst thing is that they're proud of it, totally lacking any self-awareness.

Of course, this post won't make it through the strict censorship now in place here. It would be too inconvenient to have to confront some of these truths.

Anonymous said...

Agreed, 940.

Not sure how they managed it, but this is a new low for Fix Pacifica.

The previous low was Steve Sinai posting that Pacifica should hire a jew for the finance director position.

Keeping it classy, guys.

Hutch said...

Just as over on Riptide, Kathy and Steve have every right to filter comments especially repetitively abusive ones. If you don't like it do what John over on Riptide says and go elsewhere.

IMO this blog is still much more lenient, free and open than it's counterpart Riptide. But I think repeating the same thing over and over ad nauseam is not good for the blog or anyone.


I wouldn't blame them if they closed this thread.

Anonymous said...

"any comments that degenerate into 1) personal attacks against individual blog participants; 2) incomprehensible gibberish; or 3) attempts to turn conversations into grade-school playground brawls, will be removed."

I think Kathy and Steve are well within the guidlines to spam the comments.

Anonymous said...

I have to assume that Victor Spano is a-ok with the type of behavior exhibited on this blog since all his campaign materials have FIX PACIFICA emblazoned along the top.

Voters might want to think long and hard about this endorsement.

Anonymous said...

Haha you see 1036, that was an example of a transparent attempt to use this issue for political purposes. Your group is becoming more and more desperate as you see the courts and voters not going your way.

If that is the type of comment Kathy was spamming I am 100% behind them.

BTW "Fix Pacifica" is a phrase. Nobody has a copyright on it. And certainly no candidate is responsible for statements on this blog unless they make them.

Anonymous said...

Matt Dougherty is now realizing just how stupid it was to have reached out to this site.

Stalin said...

This is silly.

John over on Riptide didn't allow ANY negative comments about the exalted JV. Not one.

And I know for a fact several were submitted.

So which blog sensors more?

Socialists like to control free speech so this fits.



Anonymous said...

The so called "attacks" on Vreeland are mythical. The objections have been primarily focused around the issues of deification and historical rewrites.
He recklessly shattered the careers and lives of some very nice people in this town. He also contributed mightily to our economic decay. Those of you who want to make a hero out of him and rename beaches after him should be ashamed. Todd's big kiss-ass deification on RIPTIDE is nothing more than the usual "look at me" attempt to goad people into arguments.
Ignore Bray, withhold personal attacks on JV and this too shall pass.

Overlord said...

Ian that's the same fauxtrage you demonstrated when you were trying to make your Errol shooting story into some kind of murder. How dare you people criticize a dead man.

Milton said...

Maybe Todd can contact Google about this and have the whole thread deleted? haha

Steve Sinai said...

If someone wants to criticize the blog, that's fine as long as they can do it in a civil manner. If people were to go through our spam folder, almost everything they'd read would be nasty personal attacks that are submitted anonymously, and the people being attacked run the gamut from Yessie to Nobie.

Most of the criticisms we get regarding Fix Pacifica tend not to be civil, and those get spammed.

Kathy Meeh said...

Hutch 1011, we can thank NIMBY 940, (previously 9/18/14, 7:44) for changing direction of reasonable comments regarding deceased Jim Vreeland to an artificial "bad blog" campaign mostly in spam.

940, needless to say any attempt to fix Pacifica comes with 30 years of NIMBY brainwashing and resistance. By the way, public statements are "free speech", with no personal or site permission requirement to reprint (within copyright guidelines). And if you are referring to the fuss Todd made, the article is still here. Google has not taken it down, and by now Todd may be labeled a chronic complainer.

Overlord 212, although I agree with your assessment of Ian's 820 comments, I thought questioning the death of Errol Chang was warranted beyond "it was a clean shoot". And between that, and the Half Moon Bay shooting of Yanira Serrano-Garcia at least some new police training will eventually happen. Meantime, understandably, these cases have brought lawsuits from the families.

Not sure what happened with Ian with that 820 comment. I'm assuming it was the beginning of not such a great morning.

Measure V was an Utter Failure said...

Jim Vreeland was a cool surfer and environmentalist who consolidated power in Pacifica with John Curtis as his guru. This led to decisions which were not fiscally responsible, and led us here to where we are today. Perhaps he knows where the missing 4 million is, too bad we can't ask him. The little realized fact is that he started a chain of events, which ultimately led to the propagation of Measure V, and we all know: Measure V was an Utter Failure! Jim...Shine on you Crazy Diamond!

Anonymous said...

I don't care how much money you have or make. As long as you don't screw people over along the way. Now I wish you people had compassion for Maureen Lennon and Mike Angel whose life's were ruined.

I feel bad for Vreelands two boys but he was no choir boy before he ran his life into the Ditch.

Anonymous said...

And Kathy, 9:40 isn't 7:44.

But I imagine you'll make sure nobody finds out.

Kathy Meeh said...

822, what solutions do you present to affect a better city economy? What development or taxes will you support? What plan do you have to achieve common ground in this city in an effort to achieve community financial stability and social harmony?

822, zzzzz... the choice to disrupt and redirect this commentary following the death of Jim Vreeland was yours. And, the choice to present yourself as Anonymous is yours. Walks like a duck, quack, quack.

ian butler said...

Wow, it’s as if no one on FixPacifica is even aware of the common rule of human decency, “De mortuis nil nisi bonum” or “do not speak ill of the dead”. I understand the temptation to break this rule, there have been a few people over the years that I personally disliked and had to bite my tongue when they passed and praise was heaped upon them, but I reminded myself that their friends and family deserved this time to focus on the positive.

In the case of Jim, who had suffered so many personal attacks during his tenure, I would think extra restraint would be in order, at least while the acute pain of losing a loved one after a long and painful battle is still raw, but apparently not.

FixPacifica could have chosen not to publish any comments critical of Jim, explaining why, and for how long, while the mourning process is underway. But if in the interest of a free and open discussion, it’s decided to let those comments through, it’s imperative that comments critical of that point of view also be published - if someone is cruel enough to make heartless statements about a dead man, they should be held accountable for making those statements. As they say, those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Kathy complains about “anonymous cowards”, but it’s equally cowardly to use your real name and then censor any criticism.

Yesterday someone told me they sent three different comments that were spammed, even though they were neither offensive or attacks, they simply disagreed with Kathy and Steve. There is no excuse to censor those comments or others like them. Once again I remind you of this line at the top of the home page: “Unlike some other Pacifica blogs, Fix Pacifica won't bury viewpoints we disagree with.”

It is time to live up to those words, otherwise your relation to them is no better than Fox News’ relation to ‘Fair and Balanced’, that is, they are just words that provide cover for you to be the opposite. Once again I implore you to publish all of those comments now and let the readers decide for themselves who is overreacting.

Hutch said...

Ian what are you talking about? Ever hear what commentators said about Nixon after he died? Or Reagan? I bet you put in your 2 cents in on that one. Do we think that was out of line? No Jim Vreeland wasn't at that level. But he was a public official who had some serious controversies surrounding him.

Are you really a journalist? Than you should be all for getting the truth out there. There is real danger in ignoring the truth when it has to do with government. We depend on real journalists to tell the truth so that governments and politicians don't abuse their power Or would you just like to re-write history?

BTW I don't see any horrible attacks on the poor man here. But from what I understand the comments Kathy and Steve spammed that were attacking some of us were pretty bad and they have every right to delete them.

Anonymous said...

Unless they're writing an editorial, journalists don't decide what the truth is. They present the facts to a story and let the readers decide what the truth is. Put it all out. Fix isn't run by journalists but it's not a bad standard to follow if the goal is to be open and inclusive.

Anonymous said...

Etiquette-based prohibitions on speaking ill of the dead should apply to private individuals, not public figures

www.salon.com/2011/12/17/christohper_hitchens_and_the_protocol_for_public_figure_deaths/

ian butler said...

Hutch,
According to a trusted acquaintance at least three comments were perfectly appropriate. It's a clear double standard, a violation of the stated policy, and censorship. Let's see them for ourselves.

Kathy Meeh said...

Ian 628, Jim Vreeland was no Prince. And the comments in spam qualify as spam. On behalf of you and your "trusted acquaintance", please refer to blog upper left: "People may comment anonymously, but any comments that degenerate into 1) personal attacks against individual blog participants; 2) incomprehensible gibberish; or 3) attempts to turn conversations into grade-school playground brawls, will be removed."

Rather than the attack campaign some of you have waged on the thread of your deceased hero, Jim Vreeland-- how about some of you, including your "trusted acquaintances", do something more productive: such as, answer the questions I posed at 9:56 AM?

753, with regard to Ian's 628 comments, we are talking about a series of attacks on a progress blog (Fix Pacifica) by a bunch of disgruntled NIMBIES. This article is a story from Riptide about deceased Jim Vreeland, and they don't seem to want to talk about him, (and really, neither do we).

Anonymous said...

808 Christopher Hitchens in Salon? I don't speak ill of the dead. Anyway, I don't think what he had in mind was some small town local official known personally by many of his constituents, derailed by illness, and with a young family within earshot.

ian butler said...

At my requst, Steve Sinai has sent me all the deleted comments from this thread. Reader can decide for themselves if they were deleted for valid reasons:

9/18/14:
Hutch, so your point is that if you're not liked on Fix Pacifica, the members have every right to run you down after you have died? There are a LOT of sites just like that on the internet. Most, I would imagine, you'd have nothing to do with and could not believe how cruel people could be. I hope you all can hold your heads high when you next see Jim Vreeland's children and tell them how much you disliked their father. BTW I didn't even know the guy. Shame on you all. Every last one.
Anonymous

744 is right on.
Anonymous

You Fixies are truly a disgusting lot.
Anonymous

The reason why this site was started was to find a way to get Vreeland off city council. Some of you really sound guilty!
Anonymous

9/19/14:
What kind of candidate sees what this website is all about and decides to make it the centerpiece of his campaign? What kind of judgment does this demonstrate?
Anonymous

My comment that was not published was simply an agreement with 7:44's comment. It was not abusive or a personal attack. I thought 7:44 made a valid point. Yet my comment was not published.
Anonymous

Meeh, if you can take a little heat without blocking every post maybe you should get out of the blog business!
Anonymous

hutch, you have a much better chance getting something posted over on riptide than here these days. trust me on this one kathy can't handle any criticism of this website without flipping her lid and going kim jung un on everyone .
Anonymous

Want to share an article or opinion? Unlike some other Pacifica blogs, Fix Pacifica won't bury viewpoints we disagree with. Send your submission, along with your name, to fixpacifica@gmail.com.
Anonymous

wrong-o 1102 fix pacifica is a state of mind a dark ugly one
Anonymous

9/20/14:
What do you think people will say when Loeb goes? He was a great and valued citizen? Right
Anonymous

Wow - my comment was censored. Nice to see that whole freedom of speech thing only applies to those you agree with Kathy.
Anonymous
on 9/20/14

"If someone wants to criticize the blog, that's fine as long as they can do it in a civil manner. If people were to go through our spam folder, almost everything they'd read would be nasty personal attacks that are submitted anonymously." Utter nonsense - many of my posts don't get past Meeh or Sinai simply because they don't like my point of view including a very early post in this thread criticizing it's tone and where it's heading.
Anonymous

Hutch,
According to a trusted acquaintance at least three comments were perfectly appropriate. It's a clear double standard, a violation of the stated policy, and censorship. Let's see them for ourselves.
Ian butler

Kathy, why did you not publish my last post, from a hour ago? I know you got it, because you quoted it above ("trusted acquaintances"). There is nothing offensive or inappropriate about it. Please share so the readers can know what kind of comments you are censoring.
ian butler

9/21/14
Kathy, you and I both know that at least 2 posts (mine) were not attacking anyone on this forum, so quit with the victimhood routine. Apparently it's ok here to speak ill of the dead, even Pacificans, but not ok to be critical of those that do so. Also, never assume someone is a nimby. I couldn't be further from it. Are you suggesting anyone who disagrees with the nimbys is ok with berating a deceased local? Very very wrong, and a very sad tone to set. After you've censored me this will equate to personal correspondance, but I really hope you think about what you have done. Anonymous

Kathy Meeh said...

Ian 637, think about it further. Again the comments here have been measured. But my personal opinion is that Vreeland was kind of a smooth, smiley faced rat. And, again, how much respect do you expect for someone dead or alive that works, or worked, so hard to bankrupt this city. You know "our environment is our economy"-- years of city brainwashing and nonsense. As for the comments in spam, that is where they belong.

Steve Sinai said...

Kathy, your comments about Vreeland are very tasteless. Why is it so hard for some people to disagree with others without it devolving into hatred?

Anonymous said...

Looks like some forgot to take their meds today! Oh well, double up tomorrow m'kay?

Anonymous said...

Good god, Kathy. I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Wouldn't have thought it was possible, but here we are.

Anonymous said...

every time fix pacifica hits a new low i think, nah there's no way it can go any lower. but i'm always wrong.

next up are religious and ethnic slurs. it's really just a matter of time at this point

Anonymous said...

I'll take one paranoid sandwich with a side of extra delusion sauce, please.

And super-size it!

todd bray said...

Steve, shut the blog down. get your name free of it.

Anonymous said...

omigod the shadenfreude is so delicious this time of year

Anonymous said...

Honest question: would you ever do business with the people saying such things in this thread? I sure won't.

Do these people not realize that the internet is public... as in public FOREVER?

Anonymous said...

I'm sending Council and our city manager a link to this in my next email to them. Wow. GG everyone, that's a wrap!

Hutch said...

And there you go Todd's 12:44 comment says it all

"Steve, shut the blog down"

They nimby's would love that. That is the reason they're making such a stink about this. To discredit this site.

I really don't see anything that bad that was said by anyone about Vreeland. There is a real danger of covering up past mistakes or they will happen again. He was a public official who had some pretty big mistakes in some peoples minds.

Anonymous said...

It's an election year. Gang of no showing their teeth.

Anonymous said...

Stick a fork in it.

Kathy Meeh said...

Steve 1213, as you know, this thread commentary now out of context with the original post of announcement Jim Vreeland's death was egged-on by a secondary conversation which began 9/18,7:44 pm. Two comments which accompanied that overreaction, possibly designed to reinforce the 9/19, 7:44 pm comment were spammed. Following Ian's joined "I'm stunned" 9/19, 8:20 am comment, as I advised at 9:25 am, he and they had the opportunity to change the tone but chose not to. Not only did they choose not to change the tone their friends created from 9/18, 7:44 pm, they to kept on coming. Comment policy: "3) attempts to turn conversations into grade-school playground brawls, will be removed."

And Steve, since initially you agreed with spamming these out of context comments, but have now allowed in their posting-- the result, there is absolutely no reason not to express my opinion about the damage Jim Vreeland and others have done to this city. Vreeland had a lot of power, influence and carisma. He abused power, he failed the best interest of this city. I was close enough to see, observe or understand some of what I view as his ethical irregularities, including his adverse participation in such issues as Sanchez Art Center, North Pacifica LLC, quarry development (2x), the Barry Swenson Beach Blvd project, Beach Blvd City Hall, open space pressure on parcel owners, WWTP management (and attaching a biodiesel plant), removing equity for city needs in flipping city bonds, etc.

"Good god",12:33, you sound exactly like "good god" 9/18,7:44 pm. If that's you, you should be "embarrassed" for yourself in starting this food fight. Of course, you had friends who chose to continue this discourse on the announcement of the death of your hero, Jim Vreeland. The credit is all yours!

Anonymous said...

@Hutch, you don't think calling Vreeland a rat is bad?

Steve Sinai said...

When is Riptide going to have an open discussion about what comments it publishes and doesn't publish?

Anonymous said...

Steve, you don't understand. The evil nimbies with their super-nimby mind control rays MADE her post. It wasn't her fault.

NIMBY, Steve, NIMBY!!!

Anonymous said...

What started it? I made the first comment on 9/16 with respect for the dead and sympathy for the family. Several others commented in that same spirit, Chris Porter, Jim Wagner, Hutch, Sinai, Fogel, anonymi. The tone changed on 9/17 with an anon and then Kathy. Pretty much a dogfight from that point on. Have you no compassion? The real kind that sets aside differences and feels for others going through experiences all of us and our loved ones will share sooner or later?

Hutch said...

225, I think it was smiling rat. That's not so bad.


Again this whole thing started because some people were making Mr Vreeland out to be friggin Jesus Christ arisen on a board where he was known to be very unpopular. You got what you asked for.

Steve Sinai said...

I'm realizing that I kinda' miss all the old fights we used to have on the blog.

Hutch said...

If some people were really concerned like they say they are about Jim Vreelands family and friends seeing this then they would have let the thing die on Saturday. Who brought it back? Hmmm me thinks me smells BS.

Anonymous said...

Nostalgia, Sinai? How are things in Texas? I miss the Agenda 21 guy and the merry hijinks he could provoke.

Anonymous said...

Hutch, for those of us who are unfamiliar, why is jesus Christ not popular on this board?

Steve Sinai said...

"Who brought it back?"

Hutch, Ian and I had been having a behind-the-scenes discussion about what kinds of comments should and shouldn't have been posted. He felt some of the comments that were blocked were perfectly acceptable. I thought he had a point, but to me his critical comments came off as a personal attack. Therefore, I wouldn't post them. Of course he disagreed, so we kept on argu..., er, discussing things.

He rephrased his comment to be a bit milder, to the point where I gritted my teeth and posted it. This all happened over the course of 2-3 days, which is why there was a delay.

Anonymous said...

You unleash hate, you'll find plenty of people who'll call you on it.

Anonymous said...

3:13

The 3 stooges of Pacifica

Hutch=Moe

Sinai=Curly

Ian=Shemp

Kathy Meeh said...

^^^ I approved the above 3:22 comment.

Anonymous said...

Looks like the bloggers of F Pacifica don't like having to answer for their behavior.

Tsk, tsk. These things have a tendency to come back and bite ones ass.

Ye reap what ye sow.

Hutch said...

At least I'm the head stooge.


Yeah Steve fine, but then Ian had to post it and the rest piled on. If they really wanted something to stop they could have not kept feeding the fire. I think it's BS that they want to protect the family.There goal here was to attack and discredit this blog which they see as a tool against their no progress goals.

Steve "Curly" Sinai said...

Curly was everyone's favorite Stooge, Hutch.

Hutch said...

*double finger eye pokes Steve*

Anonymous said...

I've always thought of Hutch as Head Stooge. He owns it!

Kathy Meeh said...

335, yet the blogger Oracle of F Anonymous has spoken in tongues of behavior no one understands. Back at you, duh "reap what you sow".

Anonymous said...

As is often the case on here, I'm reminded of the power of the humble comma for good or evil. Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss. Read it and you'll never again write or read anything quite the same way. Hilarious.

Anonymous said...

Well, don't know any of you people, but this discussion definitely firmed up my negative impression of Victor Spano, so there goes one vote.

Kathy Meeh said...

322, you were not voting for Fixing Pacifica in the first place, so Victor Spano would not be your guy. And look at the really dumb, disrespectful comment you made on the article of your late hero, Jim Vreeland.

Anonymous said...

Met him Saturday at the Fog Fest. Quite a salesman. No.

Anonymous said...

Kathy, that's not what 322 is getting at, but parteee on!

Kathy Meeh said...

418, I think we understand each other. And if you're talking about something else: explain. You didn't do that, did you?

mike bell said...

Steve and Kathy,
Thank you for having the guts to keep America strong by upholding freedom of speech and expression.
There are millions of places in this world (including Pacifica) where contrary ideas are edited and/or quashed.
Glad the FIX isn't one of them.

Anonymous said...

There was just a piece on NPR about free speech being quashed on college campuses. Conservative speakers like Condalisa Rice are shouted down. This borderlines on fascism and is practiced by the extreme radicals both left and right. It is very apparent over on Riptide but thankfully not here.

Anonymous said...

Ok, Sinai and Meeh, you're Pacifica's version of Edward R. Murrow and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Sort it out among yourselves. Prosit!

Hutch said...

Ian is preaching to Riptide readers about the dangers of visiting Fix Pacifica. Thank you for advertising for Fix Ian. Funny, you and otherRiptide regulars say you hate this site but you can't seem to stay away.


I agree with Mike Bell. Thank God we have a site that like this where free speech is still allowed.

Anonymous said...

On behalf of Messrs. Murrow and Solzhenitsyn, I am offended.

Anonymous said...

357 You've got nothing on Murrow and Solzhenitsyn.

Anonymous said...

Every single one of you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is why we moved.

Anonymous said...

Je suis free, if sometime tasteless, speech.