Sunday, October 25, 2009

Censorship?

You'll never get this type of honesty at Ripoff, the Trib or from City Hall for that matter. Ripoff has only the Wandering Blunderer, Mayberry (sp?) to please -- no executive committee; no other editors. He is the solo judge and jury of his content.

The Trib, well if you're not taking water samples at Calera Creek or embarking on some other self styled environmental feel good project under the guise of "Saving the Planet", fahgeddaboudit!

And as for City Council, this type of discussion would be occurring off-line in City Attorney Cecelia Quick's office (that is, if she didn't have to bring in consultants), or in the shadows of the always convenient "closed session".

And how about little ol' us? Well we have several editors who don't always agree on things. What a surprise! So what do we do? We wear our hearts on our sleeve. All of our cards are on the table (please give me a second and I'll come up with even more metaphors). Bottom line: we are doing our arguing in public for all to see. What more evidence can we provide as to our open, no censorship policy? And yes, editors censoring each other in no way affects the policy we have put in place for our readers.

So AnnoyingMouse and others who offer us nothing more than persistent whining as you excitedly wait to see us fail, well, you're just going to have to put up with us for a while longer. And yes, mommy and daddy will continue to fight. But don't worry, you kids can always call social services or sue us if you don't like the way we are treating you.

'nuff said...

Rocky

18 comments:

Dee-Rob said...

Dude, I hope you go back in a few days and re-read all of this days postings and comments and laugh at yourself.

I'm not whining, and if I am it won't be persistent, but Jeebus. This is poo flingingly ridiculous and does cause me to, as Anonymous mentions, question your credibility. If, as you seem to say, you started this 'blog to show some sunlight to a rotten core, your high ground is kind of shaky.

Flame on, internet warriors. I may learn nothing about local politics and my community, but I'll enjoy the show.

Jeffrey W Simons said...

Well once again the denizens of Pacifica amaze me. When all is said and done, I'm being flogged for doing something I perceived as decent (removing pictures of a serial killer) towards a group of people with whom I vehemently disagree, and for whom I have little respect.

So for all the posturing about not dehumanizing the "other side", I get flamed for being decent to the "other side" and decried as a censor by . . . the "other side".

Through the looking glass indeed!!

AnonyMouse said...

The "other side"?!? I agree with you on just about all things Pacifica. I just disagree with censoring something fairly inoccuous, think you and Butler come across as children in your on-going feud, and wish you could discuss things without immediately turning it into an "us versus them" thing. Here's a newsflash: sometimes people disagree with you, and you can still have a civil discourse about it.

You make some great points about the state of Pacifica, and those views are sorely under-represented. To me, they'd come across a lot better if you'd remove the Texas-sized chip from your shoulder.

Yes, Steve, this is Scotty.

Steve Sinai said...

Rocky's right. There are a group of people on Fix Pacifica with administrative rights, and we've ripped into each other both privately and publicly. With a blog like this, rather than being quashed, ideas (even juvenile ones) are going to be hashed out. And it won't necessarily be in a manner that follows Oxford-Style Debate rules. (I do disagree with Rocky about ScottyMouse, though. I happen to agree with Mr./Ms. Mouse.)

I've had more heated arguments with Simons over the last couple years than anyone else on either side, but we always forget about it after a few days and move forward.

Duh-Rob said...

Dee-Rob:

You might have a bit more credibility yourself if you don't start out your diatribe with "Dude". What are you, 13 years old?

Dee-Rob said...

Ha. Yup, that's right. Glad my credibility was shot by "dude," rather than the "poo flingingly."

And, damn, if that's a diatribe to you, you better buckle up.

Jeffrey W Simons said...

AnonyMouse - that's why I put "the other side" in quotes, to denote there are many diverse opinions in Pacifica, but we seem to be mired in a "pro economic survival" versus "pro all things environmental" mentality. I was actually kind of ripping on myself for falling game to it.

The bottom line is this: cries of censorship are a bit dramatic. The pictures were up for most of the day, and I really contacted Sinai about removing the Richard Ramirez picture because I felt comparing Riptide readers (as much as I disagree with them) to serial killers was a bit out of bounds. I tried to remove just the one picture after several hours and grew frustrated with the html of this blog and removed the entire post, with an explanation. How one can call that censorship is beyond me, and I even emailed Sinai pictures of a bunch of serial killers and other hippies and told him to post them back if he liked.

Damn if you do, damned if you don't. Leave the pictures up and people accuse you of hate speech. Take them down and people accuse you of censorship. I felt I did the right and decent thing, and I think defending someone's right to post pictures of serial killers is a hard stand to take seriously.

Steve Sinai said...

I'd personally rather be accused of hate speech than have people start pulling down posts because they didn't like them. That defeats one of the main reasons we started this blog. You should have left them up, and then commented that you didn't like what was there. Nothing more.

Please don't anoint yourself the Maybury of Fix Pacifica, and start passing judgment on what is or isn't hate speech. It's hypocritical to criticize Riptide for their refusal to post things on the basis of them being "hate speech" when they were really just things that John didn't like - and then we do the exact same thing.

It was only one serial killer alongside a bunch of goofy, hippie pictures. And Nick Nolte. And it was only up for a few hours, not "most of the day" If Riptide readers were offended, they would have said something, but they hardly had the chance to see the post.

Trekkie said...

AnonyMouse is Scotty? WOW! Hey Mousy, I really liked you in that episode with the tribbles. Also, I thought you were outstanding in the full length movie, you know, the one where the Klingons used the cloaking device which resulted in an invisible freighter.

Unknown said...

I think you are all doing a great job! After being censored for saying that someone "didn't have a clue" (somewhere else, of course), I love this Blog. Thank you.

AnonyMouse said...

You're right, Jeff. The cries of censorship are a bit dramatic, and I'd say even over-dramatic (even though I'm probably making them the most loudly). Censorship is what you get at Riptide, though, and some of us thought this environment might be a little more free-wheeling, and therefore might be a tad sensitive.

And Rocky, the rest of us aren't necessarily "waiting to see you fail" just because we voice our disagreement. Get over yourself.

Jeffrey W Simons said...

Steve,

They already have a thread on Riptide, and I have to agree it was inappropriate and worthy of Glenn Beck, who I hope we do not emulate. But you've proven your point, that one of our editors thinks calling those who disagree with us "serial killers" is productive and helpful to the cause. For all the good you've done for this community, Sinai, I think you discredit us with this post. I consider it hate speech so consider yourself duly criticized. I certainly have significantly less respect for you for posting the picture of Ramirez, and I would be reticent to have you associated with any legitimate political organization seeking change in Pacifica in the near future.

Kathleen Rogan said...

Here, Here! Patriots from all sides must come together. Freedom of Expressions , demand it. If you don't like it say so or don't read it. Don't put it up if you are afraid to go all the way. Fix Pacifica is a baby let's watch it grow without censorship. Put your seat belts on.

Big Brother said...

AnnoyingMouse:

I'm still waiting for your answer: Have you ever been censored on this blog? Again, didn't think so. Stop whining then. LMAO@AnonyMouse!

Steve Sinai said...

Sorry Jeffy, but I'm not seeing anyone else expressing the same moral outrage as you. The related Riptide post was put up after you pulled down the original post and before I re-posted, and even they're not calling it "hate speech." Given how casually and often they throw out that charge, that's saying something. They probably wouldn't have even cared except that you decided to hop up on a soapbox and make a big deal out of a small deal.

Someone who lives in Texas is going to decide who participates in Pacifica community affairs? Someone is overestimating their influence.

Unknown said...

Steve, I think both you and Jeff are being a little too hard on each other.How is he influencing or deciding who participates in Pacifica community affairs? He took offense and perhaps acted too quickly without talking to you, I guess? As a homeowner in Pacifica but not a resident any more, I know I cannot vote, but I appreciate that I still have a voice.

Steve Sinai said...

Lois, I didn't mean to imply that comments and opinions from people outside of Pacifica were unwelcome.

It was the pomposity of the statement, "I would be reticent to have you associated with any legitimate political organization seeking change in Pacifica in the near future" that I was commenting on. Someone from out-of-town who writes something like that displays an exaggerated sense of self-importance.

Jeffy and I squabble all the time, although it's usually not in the open like this.

Obummer said...

Bush's fault...