City council meeting, 11/28/11, (item 7), a coastal development permit for existing and future business use at 800-1046 Palmetto Avenue was appealed and failed. The applicant/owner/landlord offered a list of possible tenant business uses for his zoned C-3 (outdoor use) rental property. Additionally, he asked the city for a time projection of possible zone changes to C-1 (retail, commercial), so that he could plan accordingly. His hearing appeal was rejected, as was the prior planning commission hearing review.
Further, CEQA review is needed for ALL his existing Palmetto Avenue applicant C-3 rental properties, (locations at 800-1046). However, the applicant did not hire a consultant to conducted these studies. And, in the future CEQA review would be needed for each new property tenant. The scope of this State CEQA requirement is potentially "mind numbing", and very expensive for all concerned.
Net result: The applicant property owner, his tenant small business owners, their vendors, citizens who use these services, any resulting city tax revenue ALL lose. The city staff report blames the applicant and claims financial loss, without alternative suggestions, assistance or solutions. The ruling from city council is the usual: "we can do nothing". NIMBYS win again, well that's "happy holidays" to them! For the rest of us, humbug. For those interested, see city council meeting, 11/28/11, Hearing appeal, pages 56-58.
89 comments:
I don't see how you can grant permits before you know what kinds of businesses are going to be there.
I thought the issue was coastal environmental review for each business, rather than a simple permit with licensing.
From the televised account of the meeting it seemed that the applicant had a whole lot of support in the audience (people that seemed unhappy with the outcome, possibly tenants).
The guy claimed to own the properties for 28 years but failed to mention he filed for bankruptcy and is in foreclosure.
Maybe that could be part of the reason why no one wants to rent the properties.
The amount of support is irrelevant. You can't pin the blame for this on council or city staff or the PC or NIMBYs or enviros. You can only blame state laws -- CEQA and the Coastal Act.
You had to feel for the guy. Being a commercial landlord these days is not the goldmine it once was. Good advice is expensive. And you need good advice to do anything along the coast. Showing up at a council meeting to plead his own case cost him nothing but he's in over his head and it showed. Sort of a Hail Mary effort? I would have cheered his effort too but I wouldn't give anybody a permit for an unknown business in any location and I sure don't want this city to do that.
I agree with Steve, how can you grant a permit for an unknown business?
Wait, I know, that way we could finally have a pot dispensary!
Apparently some folks would grant a permit for an unknown business. How can I contact them? I've got some squealers in a sack I want to sell.
Lionel (511), my concern was the CEQA Coast Act requirements for EACH new and existing business, following the applicant's CEQA zoned C-3 environmental requirement. Assuming many of the supporters were tenant small business, their concerns would have been similar.
Anon 412, 421, what's fair. Allowing that batch of businesses and the land owner/applicant to fail? Nothing but passive assistance from the city if that-- the Agenda Summary is full of attitude, rather than solutions. And, if the property is in foreclosure, why would the applicant bother with it?
City council majority (2002 to current) has made a series of decisions which have left this city functioning at a poor to fragile level. There may be implications for what has happened to this land owner applicant as well.
Kathy, I repeat - you can't blame city council for this. They have to follow the law. You want the city to find "solutions" to help a property owner find a way around the law. That's corrupt.
"They have to follow the law."
Was the law explained to the applicant up front, or did the city (planning commission) just take his money?
The applicant went through 2 rejected hearings. To me that indicates some breakdown in communications, waste of time, waste of money. Better to focus on an effective process, which includes clarity for the applicant.
Corrupt? Your repeated "anonymous" comments suggesting that I am directly blaming city council for this specific breakdown of procedure, and promoting circumvention of the law as a remedy is a completely false representation. These repeated accusations from you are both insidious and crafty rhetoric, do better!
The standing complaint of others and myself with long-term city council's flubbed vision and policy are otherwise well known. The issue is structural, not the detail and outcome of a single procedure.
Regarding the issue at hand-- it seems an established land owner who has been in business a long time in this community, and represents his own interests as well as those of tenant small business owners, should be treated with respect and care.
"Lionel (511), my concern was the CEQA Coast Act requirements for EACH new and existing business, following the applicant's CEQA zoned C-3 environmental requirement. Assuming many of the supporters were tenant small business, their concerns would have been similar."
Well, OK, Kathy, but it never was close to that stage. The basic local permit is where we start, and Mr. Payne had no bona fides for the supposed uses the properties would be put to.
There's not much to go on.
No sympathy for the city here but this one looks like damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Whack-a-mole Pacifica style.
Kathy, your original post says "The ruling from city council is the usual: "we can do nothing". NIMBYS win again." You ARE blaming the council for doing nothing when in fact, by law, there is nothing they can do in this case. And you are saying that this is a NIMBY victory when it's not a NIMBY issue at all. You say "The applicant went through 2 rejected hearings. To me that indicates some breakdown in communications, waste of time, waste of money. Better to focus on an effective process, which includes clarity for the applicant," but if you read the agenda memo it's clear that the applicant was informed about what he had to do and he did nothing about it. Then you say that "an established land owner who has been in business a long time in this community ... should be treated with respect and care." It seems to me that the city staff did what they could to explain to the applicant what was legally required and facilitated the process as much as they could but the applicant was the one who didn't follow through. Your comments suggest that you expect the city to hold the applicant's hand and walk him through the process, including finding ways to get around the legal requirements mandated by state law, even when the applicant does nothing. Your bias against the city is evident, but this one is not the city's fault.
Anonymous (743) once again you do not have a name, and you whine about my comments which are abbreviated in a larger context and city history.
The Staff report reflects attitude, and you suggest the property owner/businessman purposely set-himself-up for cash-out-of-pocket, city public circus failure. Does that sound reasonable to you?
"Bias against the city"? No, I have a bias against unnecessary city poverty, which can result in limited city horizons and forced inefficiency. These issues are traceable in this city to NIMBYISM.
Kathy says, ""Bias against the city"? No, I have a bias against unnecessary city poverty, which can result in limited city horizons and forced inefficiency. These issues are traceable in this city to NIMBYISM.""
Pacifica is not a poor city. we are a city that is paying it's senior staff, fire and police too much money. Over 80 full time employee's out of 170 are being paid over $100,000 a year before benefits. Most of those are fire and police.
Pacifica has plenty of revenue. Our problem is our employees are paid too much and know they are paid too much and do nothing about it.
What Kathy should be asking is when does this practice over over paying themselves by senior staff, fire and police become criminal?
A simple pay cut formula of one percent of gross wages per ten thousand dollars of money earned would save our city close to two million dollars annually which is than enough to fill the budget gaps created by over paying these folks in the first place. Our senior staff, fire and police are simply selfish, delusional and acting like princesses.
She won't answer that because she secretly wants government to overwhelm , and only supports raising taxes to fulfill government pension obligations. More taxes and more regulations are what Meeh is advocating. No smart solutions from her team. Tactic-target, discredit and blame someone else, when in fact you voted for all of this.
by every measurable financial metric in the county, Pacifica is dead last.
revenue per resident, redevelopment revenue, employee salaries, city staffing levels . . .
the list goes on and on.
except for the city attorney costs under Cecilia Quick, who Todd Bray unquestioningly defended, and tried to blame the business groups for. and most of that money was spent fighting development.
empty store fronts, home foreclosures, road degradation, . . . by any reasonable and observable measure Pacifica is a dirt poor city
so why does bray continue to push the lie that we are rich??
".. we are a city that is paying it's senior staff, fire and police too much money."
Todd, true our city employees are paid higher than prevailing wages in say, Bangladesh. But, our cost and standard of living is here in San Mateo county where the city had struggled 2 years ago to bring some city union wages all the way up to average.
City positions have been downsized, lost, and entire departments "farmed-out" to other cities. Other than that, the "poor city" question worth asking is "why doesn't this city have a balanced economy?" And, the answer to that is already known.
Anonymous (1103), now you're on to something, the Country should have had a tax to pay for that that $7 trillion Bush administration war we're trying to pull away from. Just a suggestion, maybe try thinking about Pacifica, we're still part of the nation.
Pretty predictable. Blame it on the employees. This city's drunken jig with public money will end in the gutter.
Big Mouth is the only person who complains about city salaries. Every city has a bloated payroll and bloated pension plan.
Big Mouth is bitter his work dried up!
Actually even some of the city employees openly questioned the city's actions as they received salary increases and much richer benefit options even as the economic turndown was turning into a global catastrophe. The city has had only minor success in reducing the bloat at the negotiating table. More layoffs and outsourcing of the PD and DPW would make a difference for a while. This city has to switch gears fast about economic development and then hope someone actually wants to develop what little is left. Not likely in the near term. Cities and counties are now merging services. Maybe the next wave in our New CA is merging cities.
Anon @ 4:42 economic development is not going to be anywhere near as effective as city senior staff, fire and police taking scaled pay cuts. Revenues from our existing development is around a million dollars a year. We can double that in savings by paying our employees a wage that properly reflects the revenues of our city. That $7 mil surplus went directly to those folks paychecks. They knew they were burning the city's reserves and did it anyway without adjusting compensation. Again at what point is their actions criminal?
Economic development at this point in history is impossible. We all should focus on what we can do and if it takes laying off senior staff, fire and police then rehiring them at new positions with appropriate compensation for our budget then that's what has to happen. It is simple math and simple management.
Our senior staff, fire and police don't deserve new development to cover their paychecks IMO until they voluntarily do the right thing and stop living in denial. Scaled pay cuts is the only real answer at this point and if that doesn't pan out we need to lay them all off and rehire at new lower rates that reflect our local revenues.
How about those legally binding, negotiated labor contracts? I know you have visions of the employees refusing their big paychecks and rallying to save the city but realistically the only way around those contracts is through a judge in a bankruptcy proceeding. So let's just be patient.
I do agree with you that salvation through large scale economic development is unlikely. It's just no longer an option...if ever it really was.
"That $7 mil surplus went directly to those folks paychecks."
Todd, the $7 million was a skinny surplus. I think City Manager Steve Rhodes said a city reserve should be something like 15%. The city had employee paycheck contracts and other obligations, which could not be stopped instantly. So, that's what happens with an economically weak city. A few years back at a city budget meeting, when pushed Councilmember Vreeland explained "reserve": "Its the bottom of the check-book".
Developing the 88 acre quarry for efficient economy development is key to survival of this city-- the math can work for that prosperity, plus jobs and services.
Although I don't much like the bankruptcy alternatives you've presented (fire employees and hire them back at lower rates), what you say is an important part of our city conversation. And, I do like the merging cities idea from Anon (442). Do we get to choose Daly City?
"Developing the 88 acre quarry for efficient economy development is key to survival of this city." In that case, we're dead.
We are so dead. People who should know better are still pushing the old solutions. Meanwhile this city continues in a deathspin just waiting for some miraculous upturn before there's nothing else to cut and no more money.Maybe small cities are becoming extinct, outlived their time. Regionalization is already happening. At least merging with another city could give us some economies of scale with dept heads, staffing, purchasing,transit, and more.
In fairness to senior staff, fire and police these scaled pay cuts must seem scary. But we should reassure them that reductions in pay seem a lot more painful than they are. It will take courage on their parts to go from $200,000 a year plus benefits and retirement down to a mere $160,000 a year plus benefits and retirement and we should let them know it wont be as scary as they think.
We should let them know that modest belt tightening like smaller vacations or stay-cations and a few less dinners out a month is all it will take to stay within their budgets. And if like the rest of us they will find it brings their families closer together not father apart.
We should help them over their fears of being compensated within the confines of the real actual revenues of our city, revenues that will not be increasing for the forceable future.
After all it's not like any of them will be experiencing poverty or even middle class mortgage poverty. The fire and police that would have their wages cut from the average of $120,000 a year would be reduced only $12,000 to a very respectable $108,000 a year.
Senior staff, fire and police will need support to cope no doubt which is something the majority of us can help them with if they can get over themselves and drop the princess attitude. They've drained our reserves in a false belief they are recession proof but that dreamy state of denial is over.
This transition doesn't need to be a fearful thing for them and we should let them know that.
Too many democrats working on the same problems in Pacifica,keep coming up with the same solutions, raise taxes. Yes, we are screwed. Meanwhile, Jon Corzine, Pres Obama's financial advisor, and major donator to the Obama campaign, donated $7 Million dollars, after leaving his position as head of MF Global.MF Global went bankrupt and billions are missing from customers accounts. With democrats like these it is no wonder that there is no more money. Pres Obama says it is called social equality, take from the rich and give to the democrats. Check every pocket at the door before they leave the building, there may be a republican Meeh will want to pat down. Too late, the money is gone. Get it? There is no more money. I think that is the democrats plan, to bankrupt and consolidate the cities into one big cluster fuck bureaucratic red tape big government controlled society. Meeh likes this idea. All government workers jobs will be saved, and in the near future, all will get a promotion and a raise. As long as they tow the the dnc party line. Meeh is a prime example of towing the party line. Ramble on comrades.
We've already outsourced our fire department so what's the big deal if we send our cops to the sheriff's dept.? Saves a million bucks. And it's all Bush's fault!!
"take from the rich and give to the democrats."
Anon (729), rather than "give to democrats" (also a good idea), shall we say redistribute wealth back to the middle, lower and poor classes. Living with accelerating reverse Robin Hood economics over the past 30 years has not been fun. Particularly not fun are the intensifying affects of additional tax-breaks to the most wealthy which began 10 years ago. Then, there is that more recent world financial collapse-- just another symptom of concentration-of-money, power, and vacating regulations which protect all of us. (That study might be a conspiracy worth reliable research, rather than expending your energy "beating-up" the neighborhood).
I like the idea of efficient, fair government, and I do understand the government COLA, merit and pension excesses that Todd Bray is talking about. Such formulas-of-service and pension advantages generally do not exist in the staff-level private sector.
Your fictional characterization of me lacks nuance and credibility. I think your extreme right-wing views would lead this country to anarchy, ultimately to dogmatic fascism. And, the range of middle-class incomes and standard-of-living would completely evaporate.
Meeh, seriously, "nuance" from the bunker. Too funny.
Word is that this city only waits in line to "go county" with the police department. It's now Half Moon Bay, San Carlos, and Millbrae that have done so. There isn't any way that a city without a commercial tax base can continue funding the rich promises made to employees. Pacifica has the lowest sales tax collection rate in San Mateo County.
It's a sad legacy of the years since 1999, when public employee unions were given carte blanche.
Never give ANY human organization carte blanche.
"It's a sad legacy of the years since 1999, when public employee unions were given carte blanche."
That's part of it. Another aspect specific to Pacifica is the city's decades long hostility to business, which reached its apex with the DeJarnatt, Lancelle, Digre, and Vreeland councils between 2002 to 2010. As far as I can recall, the only brand-new commercial structure that was built during their reign of nothingness was the auto parts store at Pacific Manor.
One new commercial structure in eight years. For a city of 40,000. That's unbelievable. It's certainly unsustainable. Apparently our local "we-are-at-one-with-the-earth" types feel that if they can get away with one bath every eight years, the city can get away with one commercial building every eight years.
Rather than maintaining and improving our commercial and civic infrastructure, you can thank the hippies for letting it rot.
By being so obsessed with trails, open space, and "our environment is our economy," Pacifica is now a town that offers nothing more than short hikes overlooking decrepit buildings and weedy lots, while hikers breath auto fumes from Highway 1 backups.
The "no new businesses" ideologues starve the city of revenues just as badly as the "no new taxes" ideologues starve higher levels of government. Both sides think they're saving us, when in fact, they're destroying us. Two sides of the same extremist coin.
Yeah!
If only we were like Daly City, our budget could... whaddya mean, Daly City's budget is in the tank too?!
Well, if only we were like San Francisco, we'd... them too?!
Okay, Half Moon Bay. If only... No! A budget crisis?!
Milbrae?
Hmmm... have I said NIMBY yet? No? Well, NIMBY! And hippy! NIMBY hippy! And take a bath while you're at it!
The "blame everything on the city council" fools like Steve Sinai are blind to the economic facts of life and business in a coastal bedroom community. They want to falsely accuse the council of being against new business rather than deal with the realities of Pacifica. Their ignorant, simplistic, and incessant whining makes them ineffective and irrelevant.
Don't forget Monday nite our illustrious council will be re-installing the retread, DeJarnutts, as mayor! He did such a bang-up job all year as Waldo. Contributed so much to this city, county, and country. All hail Moronia!
Oh, and Waldo II, Vreemeister, will be designated Mayor Pro-Tempore. That means he assists Waldo I in not attending council meetings.
Leadership such as this, what could go wrong!!
"If only we were like Daly City......"
Anon, (7am), here's only one example of why Pacifica might value from a balanced, more productive economy. This one improves safety and is better for your car:
Driving over the hill to Daly City Monday and Tuesday, I noticed our 2-lane highway is narrow by today's standards, and Linda Mar Blvd is full of cracks. Once in Daly City, I noticed utilities in the area were undergrounded, no overhead wires. (Daily city undergrounding is likely paid by the city, rather than the neighborhood as an agreed surcharge, as is the case in Pacifica). It is also doubtful that some Daly City citizens pay for their own road repair, as is the case in Pacifica with roads that existed prior to Pacifica's incorporation 50+ years ago (think that's fair). All the streets that I passed-over looked very good, including a 2-lane road above the Sierra Monte shopping center (which provides services and is a substantial money maker for Daly City).
Of course, much of our shopping, and most of our work is over-the-hill, yet some of you protest improving our highway, even 1.3 miles, amazing! Last time I checked Daly City spent more money on their citizens per capita than any other San Mateo peninsula city, Pacifica the least. Therein is the economic contrast. And, San Francisco? Pacifica is an outback by comparison (their bus system, cultural advantages, work opportunities, city and dog parks, etc., its a whole different world). Pacifica is 60% open space and poor (the result of city council choices from 2002 (Vreeland, Lancelle, DeJarnatt, Digre), it doesn't have to be that way.
Does this mean I have to go to council meetings. You know I like to be sleeping by 8 pm
ah the tired old "everyone else is suffering so its not the NIMBY's fault" argument
first off, Pacifica's economic slide started in 2004. A good 4 years before everyone else. hey at least we were first in SOMETHING! Very innovative to start an economic slide and cut staff during an economic BOOM! no one else did that.
what do Milbrae, San Francisco, and Daly City have that Pacifica does not?
an actual RESERVE! of cash! and they make the hard decision to either cut staff, or dip into their reserve. In Pacifica, city council eliminates staff AND the reserve like they were out of town developers!
HMB . . . hmmmmm, what is their biggest problem financially? Oh yeah, the Beachwood settlement. you remember, when THEIR local NIMBY's decided to fight Chop Keenan and LOST.
The city is literally crumbling inside and out, and yet the same tired voices say the same tired things that lead us to the same tired place. NIMBY? sure. COUNTY? definitely!! Bye bye Pacifica!
Meeh wants every city to be the same, look the same and spend the same. Sheesh. Once again, we are a coastal city, a sliver on the beautiful california coast. We are different. We have to be careful what we build. Granted, I don't always like what has been built and what does not get approved, but Pacifica is beautiful. Much more beautiful than Daly City and even San Francisco.
"..we are coastal city, a sliver on the beautiful california coast.
No name Anon (1031), figure-it-out, this "gateway to the coast" city is a 5 mile long "sliver", and was the largest land mass city in San Mateo County before 60% of it was given away to open space.
Clearly "all cities are not alike" this one is weak and poor. Improving our city economy would improve our city infrastructure, and how would that detract from the natural scenic beauty?
Anon (722) bedroom communities went out-of-style a long time ago, ask Millbrae.
the only beach town that doesnt take advantage of being a beach town!
epic failure
Whoa, some classic Fix stuff today. Almost totally fact free but oddly satisfying.
Elections are now less than a year away.
"Once again, we are a coastal city, a sliver on the beautiful california coast. We are different. We have to be careful what we build."
That's spin for, "We shouldn't build anything."
Outsource anything that isn't nailed down and do it now so that we can start rebuilding a decent reserve in a city that functions. Life will go on and won't look much different. Other than bankruptcy it is the only way to turn this city around in the sliver of time that remains. Or, we can pass some new taxes and limp along--just like we always have but in a much poorer, meaner world. Most of us also want to see meaningful economic development beyond delis and personal services (god bless them) but that's years away and never a certainty. Our track record for facing facts and making timely choices isn't very encouraging but we can hope council gets out in front of this disaster and does their job.
What do you want to build?
CCC
"What do you want to build?" For clues, check all the 20 year dead developments in Pacifica, then focus from 2002.
"CCC", what? Google: carbon copy cloner, and contra costa college, and cheat code central.
Anon (126), there is no rebuilding in Pacifica, unless that includes replacing 3 city council members, guess who?
Oh, brave Anonymous@7:00,
All cities have been tightening their belts. When you're as economically emaciated as Pacifica though, there's not much left to tighten.
None of the other cities you mentioned, with the exception of HMB, is nearly as badly off financially as Pacifica. And none of the others resemble abandoned Appalachian coal mining towns the way Pacifica does.
And don't forget, because of groups like the Sierra Club, the Committee for Green Foothills, and the Friends of the Nematode, which led the HMB city council into a game of legal Russian Roulette with Chop Keenan and lost, HMB had to lay off 1/3 of its employees. It also gets to spend two decades paying 1/3 of its yearly budget to Chop Keenan. I'm sure the citizens of HMB appreciate your (cough-cough) help, hippies.
Oh, brave Anonymous@7:22,
Your comment about how Pacifica doesn't have control of its fate reminds me of something I heard years ago, about how to tell far-right and far-left extremists apart. The far-right wackos think they have total control over their fate, while the far-left wackos think they have absolutely no control over their fate.
As already mentioned, Pacifica refuses to take advantage of its beachfront location. There are plenty of other coastal cities that are doing very well. If you think the future of Pacifica is something that you have no influence over, may I suggest that rather than whimpering about how nothing can be done, why don't you step to the side and let those of us who feel that things can be improved get to work?
"bedroom communities went out-of-style a long time ago" - Really? That's it? That's the best you can do?
:facepalm:
Plenty can be done but being realistic is the first step. Spouting cliches and supporting outdated solutions is the right and province of the private citizen. Bravo! From the people who run the city I expect action based on reality and I'm not seeing it. We will not survive much longer as a city unless decisive and no doubt very unpopular steps are taken to stop the bleeding. Cutting expenses in every way possible is crucial. Equally important is pursuing development-all kinds of development- that will not be shot down by the Coastal Commission. There are two battlefronts-solvency and growth. Both deserve our best, most reasoned efforts. Of course, that's if we want the city to survive and can suspend the vendettas and idealogy wars for now. We do want the city to survive, don't we?
I'm going with contra costa college and damn proud
"We do want the city to survive, don't we?"
No.
Schadenfreude has always been Pacifica's biggest problem. Seems to have settled in among the hills in the damp climate. Probably permanent.
Certain comments are not being posted because they go overboard with personal attacks. If you want to be heard (or read as the case may be,) please take them out of the comments and resubmit them.
Heads, heads! We want heads on pikes. Sorry, I Love Tale of Two Cities. Madame Defarge, Jacobins and Girodins, a lively Carmagnole down Palmetto. Do they still read that in high school?
I suspect the biggest problem at the core of this city is lack of money to finance city services properly. We now live with a city economic structural problem which is not sustainable, caused by a long-term NIMBY, eco-cult strategy.
Anon (430) used a $3 word: "schadenfreude", the definition is "enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others". Fighting over the crumbs is a classic symptom of scarcity.
"bedroom communities went out-of-style a long time ago-- really?"
Really, Anon (353), my comment context (11:18am) was city economics. Sorry to report the 1940's to 1960's have past. Replaced beginning in the 1970's with the sustainable development model: 1/3 environmental, 1/3 economic, 1/3 social/civic. Millbrae is figuring-it-out. Pacifica? Oops, avoidance of "free" redevelopment money and 60% open space-- Pacifica blew it.
Anything you want to do now to help fix the problem, rather than raise taxes and fees, or just let the city fail? I didn't think so.
Kathy/Search, the city has plenty of revenue. What is at the heart of the problem is overpaid senior staff, fire and police.
"What is at the heart of the problem is overpaid senior staff, fire and police."
Todd, you keep saying that, but there are legal working contract and pension obligations. How do you propose resolving these obligations? And, are you talking about active or retired senior staff, or both? If so, how many at what payout roughly?
Are our senior level staff, fire and police higher paid with larger pensions than comparable senior staffing within the county?
Doesn't our city generally have lower employee pay and benefits levels than competitive San Mateo cities. And, aren't our staffing levels also lower?
Finally, how can you say the city has plenty of revenue, when symptoms of insufficiency and decay are abundant?
Okay, too many questions, but if you will, I would appreciate you addressing some of these. The result, may be we can all gain a little better understanding and clarity.
Many cities are in financial crisis, but the fiscal issues in Pacifica are uniquely the fault of the city council. They have nothing to do with the issues that are affecting all those other cities, like the failed economy, unemployment, foreclosures, and pension costs.
If you can maintain that irrational thought in the face of all the evidence to the contrary, you're delusional.
"Are our senior level staff, fire and police higher paid with larger pensions than comparable senior staffing within the county?"
Kathy, It doesn't matter when the city hasn't got the money to sustain it.
"Doesn't our city generally have lower employee pay and benefits levels than competitive San Mateo cities. And, aren't our staffing levels also lower?"
This also is irrelevant when the city doesn't have the money to pay for it.
The upcoming budget sessions in April will probably have very ugly decisions being made by council, including the police force being eliminated/morphed into the county sheriff's dept. I wish it were otherwise, but if someone has the evidence of money to pay for the present scheme, they should please come forward.
Anon 812, you have identified the problem! By definition, a delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence. At least this lot isn't sending troops into HMB looking for WMDs. They're just noisy but seem to be unarmed.
"...the city has plenty of revenue." (Todd, 657)
"..the city doesn't have the money to pay for it." Lionel (937)
Thanks Lionel. So, unless Todd pulls a magic cash rabbit out-of-a-hat, the answer is: the dialog is irrelevant because the city doesn't have money and must continue to downsize.
And, Anon (812) "the fiscal issues in Pacifica are uniquely the fault of the city council." Reason, the city has been downsizing since at least 2004 (actually prior), city council had knowledge, and economic opportunities were available. Nothing "delusional" about that, nice try though.
"By definition, a delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence."
Like the belief that Pacifica's economy can be sustained by trails and open space?
Lionel, The money to pay for the "present scheme" will come from our pockets if city staff and council have their way. Their counting on it and new tax "schemes" are on their way to a polling place near you. Expect those hardened combat vets from the successful school ballot measures will hit the beach soon with our wallets again as their objective. No one will be spared the scary county sheriff stories and heart-tugging theatrics. I predict an easy win at the polls.
M1%, there you go! You've found another delusion. This one and the earlier one are both fine examples and are rarely found in the same individual...well, not at the same time anyway. Oh IDK, maybe with a few people.
Get ready for the new, improved, utility users tax! Coming to you, courtesy of our financing city services committee, this spring. With you vote, you can be the first on the block to have, not only your PG&E taxed for our cities pleasure, but also your phone, cell, fax, computer, online access, hell, maybe they'll throw in our carbon footprint for good measure.
Ah, the smell of panic is in the air.
Not so fast Wanna, this latest plan to separate residents from their money was cooked up by city staff and council. They run the show with Financing City Services filling the role of patsy and community network. With the success of Measure L can anyone be surprised the UUT will be on the ballot? We're lucky it isn't one of those wretched protest votes. No doubt Financing City Services has their orders. Go forth in the community, work your contacts, and shill for us. Go, go...we're right behind you.
City's financing city services is up to something expensive.
See sept 11 2011 mtg minutes at http://www.cityofpacifica.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=4610 item 5: new "revenue"
Current utility tax is 6.5% on PG&E gas & electric. This committee, staff or various councilmembers want to raise an additional $800K by adding all phones lines--land,cell, fax, internet, etc.
Hold onto your wallets
@ Anon 9:31 PM,
It's depraved. The only ethical way forward financially for this city is across the board scaled wage reductions, not wage freezes, but good old fashioned wage reductions of 1% for every $10,000 earned.
The refusal of Senior staff et al to come to terms with our revenues in a way that is realistic rather than draining our finances of reserves (simply to meet over valued payroll) then chanting, "Give us more because we are owed," is juvenile. Selfish, nearsighted and juvenile. It doesn't help that two of our council members are themselves public employees.
Nihart, Rhodes et al are living in a self inflicted intellectual bubble that they feel is protecting them from taking the necessary steps to do meaningful wage/benefit/pension reforms. It's sad and at the same time horrifying because all this financial committee/task force nonsense is so easily avoidable. That our public sector officials and staff are using the process to hide behind good intentioned residents is unforgivable, to me anyway. If municipal bankruptcy is the only way to inject some reality into their little world then bring it the hell on.
We need to elect two new council members next year that are not afraid to stand up and say enough is enough, and we need to dump our current city manager for someone with a back bone for the job to do the right thing.
Can you imagine the utility tax bills people are going to see on everything. phone bills, cable bills, cell bills! I hear they are going to "lower" the rate but "broaden" the base. That's double speak for "we're going to tap into more of your money so we can make up for our lousy governing". No way I say! Screw this! Water, sewer, garbage, I guess they think our phones aren't already tapped enough by the feds and the state. I vote no now. Don't waste any money with pollsters and consultants to put this on the ballot. Listen to us NOW!
"...wage reductions of 1% for every $10,000 earned."
This is the solution, Todd? Union contracts have been cut, and City Manager Rhodes has elected to reduced his salary and benefits. The cafeteria plan in-lieu-of-benefits is being reduced. City council has taken some benefit lowering (chump change by comparison). Job titles (hence pay), and city staff positions have been downsized.
In total these sacrifices are not enough, not even close. This city needs focused economic development to produce a balanced city economy. The reason to develop the quarry (other than zoning) is because the land is 88 acres right-off the highway. Too bad some of you (and your 3 remaining friends on city council) have worked so hard to assure that hasn't happened.
How can the people with no job tell people with jobs how much they should be paid..
pot kettle black
Todd's fixation on bizarre socialistic solutions have zero chance of occurring, so he might as well propose Santa dropping bags of money down the chimney at council chambers as a solution.
Kathy, the scaled reductions I'm suggesting based on the 2009 salaries posted on line (excluding the 2 battalion chiefs salaries) would generate close to 2 million dollars in saving, more than enough to stay within our revenues without the impossibility of development that you know in your heart and soul will not occur.
The token wage freezes and slight reductions to date by city staff and employees are meaningless as you've pointed out. It's unfortunate city employees/staff and public officials are acting so irresponsible toward all us residents and ultimately each other. That this behavior isn't criminal amazes me.
Bring on bankruptcy. If it's the only way to get the reforms that need to happen so be it.
Todd (351), maybe some of what you suggest is happening, negotiated talks with the unions have been underway during City Council meeting closed sessions for weeks.
If that is true Kathy then I am happy especially for all our public folks. The economics of scaled cutbacks need only exist until such time as revenues increase. Compensation must be linked to revenues. As revenues increase so should compensation, as they decrease compensation show follow suit.
If this is happening then God love them for it.
You want to fix this trainwreck of a city this decade? Bankruptcy is probably the only way. Deep and effective reforms can be made and made in a relatively short time. Or we can limp along from cut to new tax and back again and again until there's no choice but bankruptcy.
Voluntary paycuts? The city and council, through chronic indecision and worse, has mangled employee morale so badly that nobody is giving up anything without a fight. In a unionized workforce voluntary wage cuts happen at the bargaining table. Hot topic for years already. Little snip here, little snip there but no significant cuts have happened. The key to Pacifica's future is in those collective bargaining agreements. Do you feel confident about who's representing your interests?
Those who cling to the myth of large-scale economic development in Pacifica really do know better. Allowing for some with perhaps limited contact with the outside world, the rest of those folks are just working the old growth vs. no-growth levers and hoping to get lucky come November 2012. Sure, new blood wouldn't hurt, but would it help our situation? You'd get better odds with the slots in Vegas.
anon@233, One adage does not fit all.
Civic bankruptcy is an ugly and counterproductive solution. We should resist that at all costs.
What Todd suggests is a way to stave off the inevitable direction of current employee payroll costs.
It's not going to be easy or welcomed, but we'd better get with it, we have very little time left.
"Inevitable direction"...says it all. The city's current solutions are too little, too late. They have no traction with the unions to get the deep concessions and they know it. Bankruptcy may be ugly but so is the prospect of property owners paying dearly to live in a decaying city. Those seem to be the real choices.
Our employees have the power to save their jobs and the jobs of their co- workers at the moment. Union concessions are easily done when the math warrants them. To delay further puts the power in the hands of lawyers, courts and fate. The choice is theirs for now. I still think our folks are smart enough and kind enough not to ultimately throw each other under the bus.
As a city we will survive, as for our public employees... maybe not. That would be a sad self inflicted shame. Regardless Steve and Ann need to move on and we need to elect two new council members in November.
Agree with you on this 100%, Todd.
You know, budget savings of 1.5 to 2 million dollars can be realized by going sheriff. Just a thought. Would solve the budget morass the 3 stooges on the council (yea, guess who) have put us in.
Shemp is talking about Nihart, Stone and Jim of course.
Going "County" will save big bucks to start and then savings erode as costs rise. Still it's the only way to go for the PD and DPW and anything else they'll take on. Ideally, the revenue picture improves in 4 or 5 years. The biggest advantage to outsourcing is that county management works from a deeper gene pool than what we have here in Pacifica. Time to upgrade in every way possible.
Out with the krill!
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