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Pacifica Tribune/Horace Hinshaw, Editor, "Editor's corner: The way I see it..." (See it in the Tribune, link currently not available).
"For the fourth time in 10 years, the Rockaway Quarry will soon be adding a new resident. According to the City Manager Lorie Tinfow the property has been purchased by a buyer from Michigan.
... The new quarry's moniker is Preserve@Pacifica. Alledly, the company backing the purchase is a privately-owned real estate investment and management company headquartered in Grand Rapids, MI."
Note photograph of Rockaway Quarry by Cindy A. from Yelp, "Silicon Segway" reviews.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
65 comments:
Well, that exlains the campaign contributions to Oniell, Spano and ruchames from the mid west.
B.T. Barnum was right.
May the ballot measure for housing coincide with Niharts re-election.
It's an old story. Follow the money. All the way to Michigan. The next election should be a real blood bath. Old Nihart may actually have to run on a real issue. Roll the dice. Nah, that'll never happen. But that should be no impediment to the RE Development lobby financing her to the max. They know a friend when they see one.
Nihart is a mid westerner herself. Should be an interesting couple of years.
These guys from Michagan are fools. There is no way, I mean no way, they can ever develop this!
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - as Todd keeps proving over and over again. If you don't know the facts (which is obviously the case here), best thing is to shut up and listen.
What a great surprise. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
The Eagles said it musically and best, "There's a New Turkey in Town".
Well, the poor bastards could just go for a mixed use commercial/hotel complex. Mind you if there are any condo units in the hotel complex that's housing.
I wonder who pitched them on the quarry? Backroom deal Oniell? Spano? Maryann and Tinflowed? Who ever it was will eventually be outed.
11:30
It was the big banker.
And I am still counting all the money I made.
Happy Thanksgiving
Happy Black Friday
Good rumor has it that a hedge fund operator from Michigan bought the property and plans to put one home on it. 10k+ sq ft mansion with an ocean view. Trophy home on the Pacific Ocean!
If I was from Michigan and mega-rich I'd do the same thing. Who wants to stay up there in the winter!
Mary 828 funny comment but, fortunately "good rumor" appears to be is bad information according to the City. Hope the Michigan investment company will produce a good project concept.
Target is headquartered in Michigan!
So is Ford Motors. Maybe an auto plant.
More like another cluster-futz about 335 houses in the quarry. Oh and a library. 275 million dollar project could generate about 3 million in property tax. We might be able to repair the sewer system. Woohoo 99% of the crowd goes wild! Of course there's that little problem of the 5 or more regulatory agencies and their litigious friends, but let's think positive, people!
He might be from Michigan, but I heard he has connections in Bentonville, Arkansas.
I'd love me some Walmart! All the elder folk on here can get jobs as greeters or hang at the food court. Or both.
SAying a little prayer for Walmart in the Quarry. I can see a towering 60 foot high pylon sign, visible from the top of the hill and illuminating the backs of the apartments and houses on Franz Court. Some sort of fast food center on the corner....This is my dearest dream!
501, if that happens you can thank your little NIMBY selves. You guys rejected a classy project in the quarry (2006), and therefore did not get your overpass. You fought practical development on Rockaway hills, now you get 10 houses for the ultra wealthy, etc, etc. You keep screwing up reasonable development so that we end-up with stupid. At least we get something. Next!
This city needs jobs, housing, services, city revenue, and a more efficient highway-- bring it.
I'd love me some Walmart. Classy aint' never coming to Pacifica--even up there in them Rockaway hills.
With all due respect Kathy, I am not being sarcastic, but sincere. I sincerely want a Walmart in Pacifica. Once I was in the Linda Mar Shopping Center parking lot, and I overheard a couple, apparently here from Tracy, saying, "I wish there were a Walmart around here, but I can't find one on GPS".
I am far from a Nimby.
I'm a Walmart Shopper, I go to Mountain View or Union City to get the specials there. I feel a Walmart would be the best use for the Quarry land. Many people in Pacifica would like a Walmart, even a mini-Walmart. Just think of all the big screen tvs and Apple computer goodies that would be sold there. It would easily be our #1 sales tax generator, and produce hundreds of jobs for Pacificans. I would sign a petition for Walmart or vote on a referendum on a Walmart.
Most of the riptides can get hired at walmart. No wait, most live off the taxpayers
820 Prepare to be unpopular on Fix because you're not chanting the dimwit mantra "we need more population". We need more population like we need a tsunami. 300 houses in the quarry will bring 2 to 3 million in property taxes to be sucked up by expensive city services and deferred mntnce. And it'll bring another 600-800 residents to shop over the hill like the rest of us. Of course, those realtor commissions, developer profits and short term construction jobs for shipped-in labor are mighty tempting if they go in your pocket--which they won't. Skip the housing and go Walmart, baby, Walmart! Maybe a nice, big cinema multi-plex alongside. Visit, spend and go the bleep home.
820 okay I understand your interest in an "everything", low cost store (although such a store could cut into other services and wages in this community). At the same time, I doubt the sincerity of 1201.
1201, one improvement would be adding a fire station in the Vallemar/Rockaway area. This is a long desired city safety improvement. And additional regional government monies are available where there is greater population, which could for example help build a better public transportation hub in this area. Even though our region (and the world) population is growing, with 50-60% permanent open space its doubtful this city could add significant population. 600-800 residents is not significant population in the modern world, (and this city has experienced zero growth for about 20 years).
The city continues to be economically marginal (weak), using "rob Peter to pay Paul" internal funding, and city infrastructure continues to deteriorate. The nearest example may be our roads, reduced paid services, additional fees. Even the City Hall building is inadequate (also not ADA compliant).
1201, NIMBIES made sure Mori Point didn't get built in favor of permanent open space for snakes, so what's left for a civilized central area is the quarry. Possibly that won't happen. If not, commercial building, including a big box or two, would bring-in needed revenue for this city.
NIMBY 1201 why would you have a problem with people (including developers and Realtors) doing their work and making a profit (getting paid) in building and managing such assets for this city? Truly, that is "dimwitted" thinking, ("dimwitted" is your word which sticks to you). But then should such a project move forward you would likely be screaming 1) outsider (referring to developer), 2) traffic (likely you're against highway 1 widening). You might also be be against 3) "big box" stores (cuts into small town charm), including 4) Walmart (low wages). Then there is that 5) pristine land issue (its a junk land quarry), and the 6) save the snakes campaign (snakes are not significant on that property). And don't forget 7) the five (5) regulatory bodies (so regulations exist), and 8) the lawsuits (NIMBY cottage industry). I forgot to mention, 9) the allegations sure to arise: the developer is an unreliable, despicable thief who will do half the job and leave the city just for the fun of it. NIMBY motto: Smear, smear, smear to deliver nothing, nothing, nothing-- all counterproductive to the welfare of this city.
Fix Pacifica wants econ development; complained when Fresh & Easy went in.
They live to complain.
Maybe this time it's mega-mansions instead of hundreds of houses. 83 acres for 20 houses. Lots of open space. 5 million or better for each. Just like Harmony. Adds a couple dozen rich people to shop over the hill with the rest of us. Won't make any money for Pacifica, but it would end the quarry debate once and for all.
The love of poverty and the lack of class in Pacifica is hard to fathom.
All you welfare lovin' parasites please move to Bolinas so we can get this house in order.
I'm a Pacifica parent and our family goes to the Walmart in Oakland sometimes. Walmart has a lot of economy priced "Walmart Store Brands". It is said that 30% of Pacificans are in poverty, including many kids. I think Walmart could raise our standard of living. A Walmart could "Adopt" Vallemar School! Wow, we could call it "Valle-War-Mart"
Here is an article about the support of a Mr Brad Loderman from a new Walmart going into Green Bay Wisconsin that includes a pretty picture of what the new Walmart here might look like. Architectural beauty is just one of many reasons to support Walmart here in Pacifica! A carefully Planned Walmart on the Quarry, stewarded by our fine current Planning Commissioners (and former Planning Commissioners too) will be a real asset to Pacifica, blending in with and in harmony with the natural setting and sewage treatment plant.
http://archive.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20140514/GPG0603/305140153/Support-new-Walmart-proposal
How about a pot superstore. Like a walmart with all pot growing merchandise. A pot University and a pot smoking room.
112, who is "it says"? That 30% may represent households with weak incomes. City Data indicates per capita income in this city is $41,273 (2012). Of course there are those who do not work, single-family households, the retired, and the disabled. Families who have income below the poverty line are closer to 5%. See PediaCities,"Percent Living in Poverty for Pacifica, CA (2012)", 5.35%. Also US Census/CA/Pacifica "Income and poverty 2006-10 update", 4.8%.
the hyrdroponics store at eureka square was an udder failure!
How much class can you expect? This dump very nearly became an actual garbage dump back in the 50s when San Bruno wanted to annex parts of what soon became Pacifica for their trash. In fact, fear of that is what motivated incorporation of all these disconnected and mismatched neighborhoods into the mess that is Pacifica. A wise old Greek pointed out at the time that there was no visible means of support for such a wannabe city--and that was before 50% of the land was given away or the advent of the CA Coastal Commission to monitor development. Be it Walmart or 350 houses in the quarry, this town's days are numbered. Of course, we'll mush on til we can't because our slime ball politicians need their stage and there's always a nickel for some jackass to make.
Kathy
Have you ever been in a Walmart?
Be afraid, be very afraid!
257, the quarry is a fine property in a prime location, needs work, and a plan to fend off NIMBY obstruction. So far the property transfer has produced no profit (only losses), except to the original sellers of the property.
But the quarry could be a useful, productive property and make a profit for this city. That is the focus. And that would prevent this city from continuing to bleed red ink into total destruction. Apparently your obstructive view is city disincorporation, while you besmirch the value of the city, and those who would promote city progress.
312, yes, I was in a Walmart Supercenter store in Hutchinson, Kansas. It was a large store, which included about "everything".
4:10
Is Hutch from Hutchinson Kansas?
I think the Riptides captured him once again!
Walmart - pays their workers so low they are teh number one users of public aid.
http://ilsr.org/new-study-finds-walmarts-miserly-wages-cost-taxpayers/
We shop elsewhere.
Let's see what the voters remember in 2016. After all, Nihart promoted the regressive "cell phone" tax, presided over Council with no finance manager, commits to decisions that increase rate of debt...
We can see what Mary Ann is made up of with regards to the 35 million dollar library. Can she show leadership to get the job of selling the voters on more taxation to support the library dream?
Try to cross Mary Ann. She will do mind control experiments the CIA don't even know about yet.
Or she will place you in a sleeper hold.
Or hypnotize you, like the hypnotized chicken.
550/554 What Nihart is about and very good at is not leaving her fingerprints on anything that could ever, anywhere, cost her a vote. As far as the UUT tax, dust for fingerprints-you won't find hers, other than as one of 5 council members just putting the option before the voters like a democratically elected council should. BFD. Sounds like the UUT was a big moment in your life. No one else gives a shit. Library? That would take the shell game of the century or some decision by the JPA that our libraries are too awful to be part of their system. Probably both. Then Ms. Tinfow can use what she learned in Walnut Creek to either by-pass the voters or make them an offer they can't refuse. Tinfow takes the heat, Nihart the credit. Crowd goes wild!
544 I think Walmart will survive without you and your buddies.
Hutch
I thought the riptides captured you.
Walmart is a leader in low wages - so low that Walmart employees are the number one users of public aid. We never shop there for that reason.
Anonymous at 8:20pm said..."
I'm a Walmart Shopper, I go to Mountain View or Union City to get the specials there. I feel a Walmart would be the best use for the Quarry land. Many people in Pacifica would like a Walmart, even a mini-Walmart. Just think of all the big screen tvs and Apple computer goodies that would be sold there. It would easily be our #1 sales tax generator, and produce hundreds of jobs for Pacificans. I would sign a petition for Walmart or vote on a referendum on a Walmart."
Hundreds of jobs. Do you pay attention to the news? Are you watching as across the country workers are striking due to the low wages, lack of benefits and policy that encourage people to ask for government support? Hundreds of jobs that destroy the local fabric of small business?
People from Tracy talking about needing a Walmart? Why are they here? Will pay more attention to those that are here for the ocean and hills. Enjoy your drive to Mountain View and Union City. There will never be a Walmart in Pacifica.
Yes Anon @ 10:40, he broke free of our compound... I mean Resort... and somehow overpowered an elderly couple to get their IPad to make that last comment. Luckily our commando's... I mean re-education "guides" caught... um... reestablished contact with him, and he is safely back in re-education camp... I mean the compound... no, I mean the Resort.
1124, you said, "Will pay more attention to those that are here for the ocean and hills."
Is that another variation on "the hills will pay the bills"? Sue's going to change her mantra from "our environment is economy"? (I know more traffic on highway 1 is good, even though you don't want to do what's needed to improve the existing congestion. In the future, maybe the city could even charge a fee for parking there, lol).
The hills and ocean will not go away if this city has a better, more functional highway (widening), and structurally sound economy.
@11:24 said "There will never be a Walmart in Pacifica."
A Walmart wouldn't include houses, so fits right into the existing zoning for the quarry. No vote required.
It would be the closest one for the north Peninsula - over 1 million people - so a smart move by Walmart.
The usual suspects will object, and will make lots of claims that (as usual) just don't hold up to scrutiny, but... Never say never!
Regarding property taxes. Keep in mind that the county keeps about 85% and Pacifica would only get 15%.
So...$300mil property value, $3mil taxes, but only $450,000 to Pacifica. Would that cover the costs of such a large development? Hmm... It may at first, but as costs increase over the decades and tax levels stay the same...
449 Kinda why we're in the mess we're in. Property tax revenue alone can never keep up with rising costs of services and we have nothing but property tax revenue. Guess Fixxies would say that's why we must keep adding housing. Rather than play in the Housing Ponzi Scheme we need development that produces other types of revenue like hotels, retail, light industry. Instead we get stuff like Harmony. All that land producing $75,000 a year in property tax for Pacifica. Oh, yeah, and a couple of manicures in some local salon and a few tanks of gas. Jackasses!
Res, I hate it when you bring up reality. 300 million dollar development produces about 3 million in property tax and Pacifica would get a whopping $450,000. Maximum. Oh, less the bill for city services, forever. Put in a couple 3-star 150 room hotels and we'd get a couple million in TOT. Minimum. They visit, they spend, they go home and use someone else's city services. Probably requires more IQ than this council could come up with. Collectively. Definitely would take more backbone to lead us in that direction.
6:30-- also makes you wonder why the city's going gangbusters trying to change land use designations (Pedro Point, Gypsy Hill) from mixed-use business to residential.
It's like they've ACTIVELY TRYING to sabotage the future health of the city. And Fix Pacifica cheers these idiots on!
11:35, Ask the Walmart employees if they appreciate the job. We also have much higher minimum wages here than the rest of the country.
323 is correct. No vote required for a Walmart.
I would rather see outlet stores but a Walmart would draw people from all over and generate millions for Pacifica.
Now another one is still talking about outlet malls.
Do you ever listen. Every Outlet Mall builder in the country passed on the quarry.
No outlet mall is going to have a stupid name like Pacifica Preserve. This is going to be our version of Ocean Colony or Blackhawk
225, an outlet mall as part of quarry economic development could be interesting, productive and welcome!
Funny thing some of us don't recall those "outlet mall builders" passing on the quarry (certainly not current, and potentially not part of a total project).
The only time I remember outlet malls being discussed was by Barbara Carr and the outlet malls were in Pedro Point, not the quarry.
Because you weren't consulted Kathy. Every potential purchaser has done their due diligence, and an outlet mall doesn't pencil out. Nor does a straight commercial development. If the purchaser were from Arkansas, it would be a group from Arkansas. They don't use hedge funds to buy their properties. Good luck to the new development team, they will need it.
I remember Barbara Carr talking about outlet malls in the quarry. I thought it was a great idea, which is why I occasionally bring it up. Not that I expect it to happen, though. There are plans to build an outlet mall at the site of Candlestick Park, now.
"Every Outlet Mall builder in the country passed on the quarry."
Who and when?
413, the type of fund that would be interested in such a longer term investment might be a Real Estate Investment Fund. Its seriously doubtful that a "hedge fund" would be interested except on a short term trading basis (which would not be suitable for this project).
Steve 559 has brought up new information, that Candlestick Park will include such a mall as part of their total project, which may or may not have some affect on any future quarry planning potential. (And such due diligence with regard to an outlet mall in the quarry has apparently never been done, as also mentioned by Chris 404).
I think 344 is on to something with the name Pacifica Preserve. Sounds like an exclusive development. Like Harmony or as 344 mentions, Blackhawk or Ocean Colony although smaller. Maybe 20 multi-million dollar homes on a large parcel. Might be easier to get over the regulatory hurdles if the project is low-density and with plenty of open space. Crass retail wouldn't fit in. Won't do a thing for Pacifica's bottom-line.
Doubtful much serious thought was ever given to outlet mall in the quarry in the past. The money for the developer was always in housing although we know that's cyclical. Too bad the company known as Premium Outlet Malls either hasn't noticed or isn't interested. They've re-invented the industry.
Some of you are close to the correct answer. Yes, the property was indeed purchased by a Michigan based investment firm. The plan is to partner with HUD and move the entire city of Detroit to the Quarry. The investors have been searching far and wide for a location the economic equivalent of Detroit, but with "nicer weather and a view". Well, imagine their (and our) good fortune that they came upon our little slice of heaven... Now we will have no choice but to widen Highway 1 to accommodate the tsunami of double-wides surely destined for our quaint little coastal Mecca.
Sure makes one proud, doesn't it?
1021, be still my heart. You best not be funnin'.
Kathy gets an A for today
All the rest of you flunked RE Principles 101.
Kathy and Steve, there are 5 outlet mall builder/operators in the US. There is one from Australia that operates in the US. They, nor the former owners of the Quarry do not need your permission, nor your input on the use or potential sale of the property. They also do not owe you the times/dates/specifics of their business practices. They came, they looked, there isn't a good highway access to the Quarry, even though it is close to San Francisco. The outlet mall at Hunter's Point/Candlestick is not new, its been discussed since Lennar bought the property 15 years ago. Get over yourselves, you two are as development savvy as Todd Bray.
10:00 AM, why should anyone take your word for it? Either tell us when and who looked, or at least put your name behind your statement.
are there any height restrictions for commercial development in Pacifica?
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