With more paperwork to set-up and organization, this recall effort already looks smart. The recall vote will include three (3) petitions. Three (3) petitions means vote to recall each of 3 city council members: 1) Vreeland, 2) Digre, 3) DeJarnatt. Vreeland is a given, but so are the other two (2). All three (3) city council members, influenced others and voted as a city council majority and "got us into this financial mess".
Want to get involved? Send Therese Dyer an email and join the cause: theresedyer1932@gmail.com.
Pacifica Tribune/Letters-to-the-editor, 2/7/12. "Recall efforts" by Therese M. Dyer. . "Editor: Sorry
this letter didn't get in the paper last week -- computer problems,
what else? Anyway, thanks for the response to my last one indicating a
possible recall.
Here's an update. I've spoken to an attorney and am
waiting for his reply to some questions I had before sending him my
draft. I've had offers of help with money, signs and petitions, but we
still need more to circulate the petitions.
We suffered the pain, now
let's all get together as a community and take our city back before it
disappears into bankruptcy. I am willing to put up the seed money but I
don't want it to fail either. Some of you are giving me advice and I
have taken it into consideration, but the Big Three are who got us into
this financial mess have to go. Posted by Kathy Meeh
37 comments:
I am so happy about this. I just called my 90 year old mother in law and she screamed "Yes!"
Finally we may get rid of Vreeland and the rest who want to tax us to death while protecting their buddies.
Yay!
so where is Jimmy V. That is the $64,000 dollar question??
This is very interesting. I understand that Therese Dyer is a member of the Civil Grand Jury, and thus her involvement in this recall effort would require her to recuse herself in any investigation of city and perhaps county business that involve those being targeted by this recall. Her membership in the grand jury would NOT shield her from civil or criminal charges if her activities could be shown to be biased with malice. I don't know the law in this regard but I suspect that the targets of the recall may want to ask the City Attorney about this.
^ Wow sounds like a veiled threat from a disgruntled city employee.
Are you trying to scare Therese off?
Why on earth would anyones involvement in a grand jury preclude them from starting a lawful recall campaign?
Grasp at straw much?
Lot of that going on.
Why should Pacifica have to spend precious resources to recall Vreeland? Hasn't this guy cost us enough money already? Gabby Giffords had the decency and integrity to resign, why can't he?
Does Council have the authority to terminate him for excessive and chronic absenteeism? Surely there must be some kind of parlimentary remedy for this nonsense.
Pacifica is dying and we don't even have a quorum at the helm.
Better to expend your resources fielding a candidate or two in a regular election. BTW the two you are not targeting have voted for or supported every tax increase measure in town since in office so some significant misplaced/misinformed anger there folks.
Many Pacificans feel the three have had 10 years in office and it's time to go.
I believe the other two are against the sales tax Todd. And we need people who are going to be pro development. At least that's what some of us think.
This is very interesting
http://pacificawatchdogs.home.mindspring.com/SFC_Recall_1.htm
"I understand that Therese Dyer is a member of the Civil Grand Jury, and thus her involvement in this recall effort would require her to recuse herself in any investigation of city and perhaps county business that involve those being targeted by this recall. Her membership in the grand jury would NOT shield her from civil or criminal charges if her activities could be shown to be biased with malice."
Therese wrote a letter to the Tribune clearly stating that this effort on her part would not begin until she was off the grand jury. I hope she sticks to that.
I won't support a recall, as it has proven to be a disaster in the past. We have term limits now, which are a great improvement over the inertia system of governance.
From the 2003 Chronicle article about the then recall effort of Vreeland, Digre & DeJarnatt.
"Recall backers accuse the four targeted council members of opposing any development that could help pay the bills."
"The council members say they want to preserve Pacifica's beauty, and they want slow, controlled growth that preserves open space."
Here's a thought: if you don't like them, vote them out of office instead of wasting money we don't have on a recall.
Because 2 of the three aren't up for re-election until Nov 2014. Talk about wasting money, we'll be bankrupt by that time.
Todd (645) I think you're correct about all city council members supporting city taxes. There is a big hole in the bank account, so city council members support revenue (however that is funded).
Here's the difference: The 3 city council members that are targeted for well-deserved Recall have proven over 10 years they are anti-growth and anti-significant development. They have sacrificed the economy of this city in favor of an "open space" bank account.
The other 2 city council members show some promise, if they have 1 or more supporting pro-economy council members.
Nice article from 2003, Hutch (904), same "no growth" city council majority, minus 1. 9 years later, worse conditions.
Lionel (904), good point, Therese Dyer will be off Grand Jury effective 7/1/12. She has discussed her standing with legal. Recalls are expensive and require a unified effort by citizens, therefore the more participation the better. The summer months are a better time to collect petition signatures, so should be okay.
Of course Lionel, you, Todd, your friends will not support the Recall, who would expect that. But, as Hutch (920) points out the people of this city cannot afford to wait for a 2014 miracle.
I guess that means they were just up for reelection. Why do you hate democracy?
My understanding is that someone can't be recalled within six months of an election. If the election for DeJarnatt's seat is in November, then the recall election has to be held in May. If Therese is on the Grand Jury until July, then how can she take part in a recall campaign to meet the May deadline?
I'd love to see DeJarnatt, Digre and Vreeland off council, but I can tell this recall isn't well thought out. The Watchdogs recall attempt was a disaster, since it showed Council's opponents to be so weak and disorganized that Digre, Vreeland, DeJarnatt and Lancelle felt empowered to do whatever they wanted.
Steve (2/8, 11:11 pm), I don't think Therese ever planned to do the Recall this May, because she is clearly on the Grand Jury. It takes time to gather signatures, and build an organization. She has consulted legal, and is or will be aware of election requirements.
The timetable may be may be next May (who knows), the committee will advise. Its better to gather signatures in the Summer and Fall, if allowed and if possible.
The Watchdogs petition effort occurred during a very rainy Winter. FMV as a participant, the effort seemed organized enough, and the flaws that occurred in a compressed time-period could have occur in any such effort. The effort did not reach the ballot, that's all. Hardly a "disaster", more people became educated.
City council 3 have the forum, the power and the control of this city, while their anti-development friends have promoted and supported them. That's their strength in spinning the story and getting elected. 10 long years as a majority, city council 3 have ruined any economic advantage this city could have, welcome to "our environment is our economy".
The after-the-fact trackrecord post-mortem of these 3 city council members is more clear now. And, for the good of the city, enthusiastic people like Hutch will be involved in the Recall. Hope his 90 year old mother-in-law who screemed "Yes!" can vote. (his comment 2/8, 1:35pm).
That's a relief! Unimpressive start. The best thing we can all do is support a strong candidate to replace Pete--whether Pete runs again or not. Do this successfully and the council majority will change this year and through a regular election. No doubt the Green Machine will have their own plans.
Glad this isn't going forward right now. Unimpressive start. In the interim seems like the best we can do is get behind a strong candidate to replace Pete this November regardless of whether Pete runs or retires. That way the balance of power might shift on most of the important issues as early as this November and through a regular election.Certainly the Green Machine will have its own ideas and they are a formidable opponent.
Me too Steve. Let's not judge this effort before we see the plan.
Yeah Kathy, my 90 yo mother-in-law has seen her taxes and fees whittle away at her fixed income.Now they are trying to cut important services she needs. She supported the Quarry project which she knows would have been good for Pacifica. And she hates Vreeland and the other two for creating this mess we're in.
"Unimpressive start." Ditto Anon (116), (1:58) Really?
Do you think the "term limits" citizen effort happened overnight? Clue: it did not. Do you think most citizen efforts as big as this one happen instantly? Clue: they do not. Preliminary work is needed in advance of gathering petitions. And, gathering petitions will be citizen effort part 2. Then, once "Recall" meets city/county conditions are met, it qualifies for the city ballot.
Therese has just advised this effort is now moving forward, and if you're interested in participating get on board. That's where we are.
Those term limits are for people who hate democracy too. Now that we finally have a couple of decent council members, we can't keep them.
This entire recall is silly tea-party-style "Babs didn't win so I'm gonna throw a tantrum" childishness. Like others have pointed out, people should spend their efforts on promoting good candidates through the process that already exists.
The recall effort will ultimately be a waste of time and effort that will fade away, when instead the focus could have been on developing a strong candidate who could win in November. It's lose-lose.
Suppose the recall actually succeeded in removing 1 or more council members, who will run to fill their seats and win? Answer: more of the same. End result: no change.
The way to ensure change in the council is to have an appealing candidate and an effective campaign. Len Stone is an example.
You have a right to your opinion. And we have a right to recall a council member who is bilking the taxpayers by not showing up for any meetings. We're not going to wait until November 2014 to get rid of this useless constipation to progress.
As for the other two, we might as well go for it and perhaps the tables will turn.
People saying we don't like democracy can't see that this IS democracy. It's part of the process.
It's still a complete waste of our minimal resources, but at least there's a basis with Vreeland. What's your reasoning for the others, apart from "we might as well go for it", Hutch? If it's just "I don't like them or their policies", that's what the election was for. I don't think they are good for Pacifica, but recalling people because you don't like the results of an election is childish and undemocratic.
"...at least there's a basis with Vreeland." And, you're one of the other two? (TJ @12:13)
There's a solid basis to recall all three. Your comment, "I don't like them or their policies" is weak. Add to that "because they structurally ruined the city economy." And, Tommy J., they really worked at ruining the city economy.
Taking this conversation to "you don't like the results of an election" is beyond stupid or deceitful. Hutch (@11:29) got it right: "People saying we don't like democracy can't see that this IS democracy. It's part of the process."
I agree, there is a solid basis to recall all three. They have had 10 years to get us deeper in debt while inflaming the real problems causing this crisis which are out of control pensions, benefits and wages. Their answer has been to raise our taxes and cut services to Pacifica's needy. These three have been anti-growth except when it comes to their pockets and top city earners.
The final slap in the face was this ridiculous survey and task force who's objective was to herd us like cows to the tax slaughter.
They have been applying bandaids on a festering wound for too long. It's time to amputate.
Recall has worked in this town. It is fine to work hard to get a candidate elected but with usually a larger group running then seats open, a split vote can allow "the wrong candidate" to slip in. It is part of the democratic process to allow recall and term limits. Term limits are for the same old same old getting in because Incumbant is by their name and half the town doesn't know who they are voting for. We need a full operating Council at this time with our financial problems so whatever the cause is for Vreeland's absence, he should realize the best way to serve his town is to resign.
"...but with usually a larger group running then seats open, a split vote can allow "the wrong candidate" to slip in."
Anon (134), I disagree with your logic. 2 on city council are good to okay, but 3 are the majority "wrong" city council members. Whereas with 3 city council members gone, we only need 1 candidate to win. Hopefully we will have good candidates, they exist.
Following your strategy, if we only have 1 additional candidate running for office, that lowers our odds. Running for office example: our 1 candidate, 3 okay candidates, 3 clones of the city council members who were kicked. Oops!
"Running for office example: our 1 candidate, 3 okay candidates, 3 clones of the city council members who were kicked. Oops!"
Huh??????
What's the problem? Don't you speak Meehsi?
Further clarification of comment for you Anon (725). The subject is city council recall.
Last city council election, of 3 open positions there were about 7 candidates. 1 of our candidates was elected. Had there been 1 open position only, and 7 candidates our odds of winning would have decreased.
Otherwise, I do agree with Anon (134) more so than not. Anon said, "Term limits are for the same old same old getting in because Incumbant is by their name and half the town doesn't know who they are voting for." Point proven by incumbents Vreeland and Digre winning their elections.
Also, ".. whatever the cause is for Vreeland's absence, he should realize the best way to serve his town is to resign." He should, but he's Vreeland.
So if you believe these three anti-progress, pro tax and spend council members should go. If you think 10 long years is enough please let Therese Dyer know you support the recall. theresedyer1932@gmail.com
I would support the recall. It might just work this time. There are a lot more people that are fed up and if they can be reached, the recall may succeed.
The only guy who ever did anything good was Bernie, kudo's Bernie if you are out there.
Bernie, and term limits, he single handedly did it by his self.
635 did you just wake up from a long nap?
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