March 24, 2010, 03:56 AM By Heather Murtagh Daily Journal Staff
Youth on the coast are advocating a different approach to curbing
under-age drinking: Hold the parents responsible.
On Monday, the Pacifica City Council supported an idea generated
by local teenagers to draft a social host ordinance. Such a measure
would hold adults responsible for underage drinking in their home,
regardless whether the adults are home when the drinking occurs. Local
teens hope by fining the adults, rather than going after the youth, will
create a more informed, more involved adult population ultimately
curbing the underage behavior. A draft ordinance will be brought back
before the council at a future meeting.
“I’m proud that our students are willing to focus on the roots of
the problem and all the potential consequences. That youth have written
a long-lasting policy is amazing,” Richard Boitano, associate
superintendent for education for the Jefferson Unified High School
District said in a prepared statement.
Young leaders from the Communities Mobilizing for Change on
Alcohol youth council, known as CMCA, a program through the Youth
Leadership Institute, presented the idea to Pacifica elected officials
Monday evening. Drinking issues have been of concern to Pacifica after
two teens were killed in a car crash in 2005
Oceana High School seniors Natasha Smith and Theo Smith, no
relation, were both suggested to the group by teachers during their
sophomore year. Both had experiences in some way relating to alcohol and
hopes of making some change locally. The group has worked for three
years leading to its proposal for a fine-based policy.
A peer-led survey found approximately four out of five young
people in Pacifica and Daly City (84.4 percent) saw other youth drink
alcohol at their home or someone else’s home, normally when adults are
not home, according to the YLI Youth Access Survey in 2009.
Natasha Smith was surprised at how honest people were about the
survey.“In a sense I was shocked at the number of youth who knew someone
who drank. It’s a high percentage of people. But at the same time, I
know a lot of people. So it didn’t really shock me,” she said.
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34 comments:
What about the homeless guy outside the liquor store who buys up for the kids, and then the kids drink it on the beach. You gonna fine him and the city too? What about when the kids steal the liquor from the stores? who you gonna blame and fine? What about just taking liquor licenses away from all business's and shut down all sales of liquor? Oh wait, we tried that. It did not work. What is this? This group of kids for change? Hmmm....
Children should be given access to all the alcohol they can buy and/or steal. Being drunk out of their minds 24/7 would greatly increase the probablility that they register as republicans when eligible.
Kathleen - My son is Theo Smith and he has worked very hard trying to educate his peers on the effects of alcohol. You'd be amazed at the amount of parents who allow teenage drinking at home ("at least I know where they are""at least they're not out drinking and driving""they're going to drink anyway"). Nothing but lame excuses. What happens at the home is the responsibility of the parents, if not who's responsibility is it? I'm 100% behind this group. You have to start somewhere in creating positive change. Theo - I'm proud of you for effecting change in the community.
The drinking age in this country is a complete joke!!! Change the age to 18. If an 18 year old can vote and die for his country he should be able to have a beer or cocktail!!! Simple as that.
Drinking ages in most other countries is 18 in some cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age
The article is actually about high school students and alcohol. The plain and simple truth is teenagers are not mature enough to handle the effects of alcohol. I've attended these meetings and the stories/statistics are mind blowing.
Back in the Paleozoic Era when I was a kid, kids would have laughed at your son Mr. Smith. He would have been labeled a goody two shoes and he would be relegated to the geek squad. Is that what you want for him? Kids want to be adults. They want to be cool. Smoking, drinking, swearing, drugs, sex - they've always done them and they always will, just like their parents. Where in the hell did you go to school? The Little Lord Fauntleroy Academy for Albino Hemophiliacs?
Most adults aren't mature enough to handle the effects of alcohol. So what's your point?
If these kids want to be adults by emulating their behavior, then they should also learn to take responsibility for their actions as adults. If the adults are stupid enough to promulgate an ordinance that the students drafted which shifts responsibility for their actions back to their parents, then I suppose the adults should be fined for that alone - better yet, sterilized.
Mr. Smith,
A "thank you" to your son for his efforts.
In a day and age when drinking, drugging and wanton behavior are glorified in our media, it's great to see a student advocate responsible behavior.
In a way, it's sad, isn't it, that someone has to advocate responsible behavior. You would hope it would come naturally. And you would think that it would be the most natural thing in the world to suggest that parents should be responsible for what occurs in the homes they occupy, but as you have seen, people have some... interesting... notions about things here on this blog.
Good luck to you, sir.
If a child can get an abortion through her high school ,, then she can have a beer afterwards.
If a child could take a day off of school to beg for money for their teacher,,,, then that teacher can let the child drink on campus. For gosh sakes, pay them for the work.
I OPPOSE this rule. It is an assnine rule. It is an invasion of MY PERSONAL FREEDOM. BACK OFF. GET A LIFE. STAY OUT OF MINE.
For the record I do not condone underage drinking, having sex, beggin on the streets for money.
Theo, thank you for your Youth Leadership Institute (YLI) effort along with other teenagers and supportive parents in an attempt to monitor and control teenage drinking. As your father says young people don't handle alcohol well, and parents are responsible. Reality, lots of people don't handle alcohol well.
Main thing is to grow-up smart and safe. Think some people who posted comments here may not have understood from the article (above) that your organization grew out of the alcohol related tragic deaths of two teenagers who crashed a truck against a tree on Lakeside Drive (along the golf course) in 2005.
In any event, the city social host ordinance (SHO) will advance, and the partnership with the police department moves forward thanks to you and your leadership friends. This is a significant contribution to our community.
Everything I learned about sex, drugs and rock n roll was through my public high school. Give me an FN break with this stupid rule. My poor mom. Thank God this rule was not in force when she was raising five kids. It is part of growing up. Kids are going to experiment. YOU WILL NEVER STOP IT.
I feel great sorrow for the lives that were lost. The young kids that were killed is tragic and we will never forget. But, you need to understand that adults die from alcohol related incidents also. The world can never be perfect. You can make up all the laws in the world and people will break them. Majority will get away with it with no incidents of an accident. I am concerned for the parents that can not be home all day. In these very rough economic times parents do not need to worry about this. We tell out children every day about the consequences of their decisions. And kids, from good families, with the best parents, will decide on their own what to do. It's part of growing up. Like I said, Educators think its ok for young girls to have sex and abort. Educators thinks it's ok for kids to take a day off of school to protest in the streets. And now Educators think its ok to narc on your friends and parents???? Oh NO NO NO FN WAY. Children, when they enter high school are most likely to learn how to drink, do drugs, have sex. It does not mean their parents are teaching this at all, quite the opposite.
Kathleen, I think teenagers and other young adults are smarter and more careful than they used to be, as are their parents. And, of course as their parent you are also legally responsible for teenager actions.
The ordinance in process/not finalized is Consideration item 4, page 2, summary report page 6, 3/22/2010. People have an opportunity to speak on consideration items when these items are presented at city council meetings. CITY COUNCIL AGENDA It seems like an adults servicing alcohol at "gatherings" to teenagers although monitored may already be illegal.
People like Kathleen don't want to be held responsible for the actions of their own minor children (I guess they want their neighbors to raise their kids?). They can't even behave like adults themselves, eyes rolling, petulantly frothing at the mouth, posting all sorts of potty mouth insanity.
The prospect of controlling their own children frightens them, because they can't even control themselves.
@Kathy, Really? Are you that naive? Teenagers and other young adults have not changed one bit.
I think I need to have a one on one session with our City Council. I need it to be private. I have a lot to tell them. If I can be promised it will be completely private I will do it. I think this is a bad ordinance and I will like to tell them why. How can I go about doing this?? Any one have any ideas?
Kathleen - You sound like the people they are trying to reach. I watched high school students speak of stories, where parents actually served alcohol at their teenage parents, trying to be the "cool" parent. This is more common that I thought. It's not okay for this to go on, the community needs to be educated and that is what they're trying to do.
lol at the accusation of naivete when you don't know how to dial a phone or write a letter.
@ "parents fault". Actually my son is far from being a "geek". I've actually raised him to be "well rounded", to be able to fit in with multiple crowds. He's the ASB President, member of the basketball team, city council representative... Most of his friends are popular and have no problem turning down alcohol, drugs. You'd be surprised to know that those who are in to that are looked down upon and "unpopular". This ordinance is to keep parents from serving or allowing kids to drink at their house. Yes the kids need to be held accountable for their own actions, but in this circumstance the parents should control what's going on in their own house.
I don't blame Kathleen for her really outlandish and ignorant comments. She is definitely our target parent. There is already a law passed in Pacifica called "The Loud and Unruly Clause." This clause asks neighbors to report a nuisance in their community and eventually shuts a party down, and if evidence of teenage drinking occurrs, they create criminal records for the teenagers. They treat the drinkers as the criminals, rather than hold parents accountable for what they are teaching their kids. What our ordinance does is to hold parents accountable for these nuisances. Don't worry Kathleen if you are reported, you get a warning and a slap on the wrist to make sure you don't get caught again. It is the second offense that yields the $1000 fine. We just wanted a civil ordinance rather than a criminal one.
Essentially what we are trying to prevent are tragedies such as the car crash in 2005. Teenagers will drink, and we're aren't trying to stop them, we are trying to keep a tie on them to make sure they are responsible, and if it takes a fine to teach a parent a lesson, that in turn they should teach their kids, so be it.
Also to the personal attacks, this is what I like about Oceana, it's not the real "High School" experience because social status isn't a issue. I have fun with friends, I have a girlfriend, but at the same time I worry about grades because High School is the first stepping stone into the real world. Why spend it getting drunk, and gaining social status on the "cool meter?" It is the fact that I as a 17 year old teenager, started working on an ordinance at 15, am able to say that I made a true difference in my community that really matters. Popularity in High School can only take you so far, and hey I am the ASB President, MC of the rallies, and have been on the basketball team for four years. There are many people who know and care about me.
and the final word to Kathleen. The March 4th day of action wasn't us just begging people for money for our teachers, it's because ALL funding to our schools is being cut. Less and less people everyday are being kicked out of schools because schools can't take them. Also, how can they even receive a decent education if there is no money for text books, and great teachers. You have a very clear view on your life, and who am I to say it's wrong. I just wanted to educate you more on what I am trying to do, so that you may hopefully see that this is a very plausible solution.
Thanks to everyone for their support.
Theo,
I applaud your efforts. I only wish I had such a well-balanced view of life when I was you're age!
Don't let the Kathleen Rogans of the world get you down. I'm not sure why they're so bitter, angry, and are unable to refrain from public tempter tantrums, but though loud and boorish, they are the minority in this world.
All the best to you.
Theo,
A lot of people fought wearing seat belts when that became law, no matter how much sense it makes and how many lives they've saved.
Sometimes it takes a very long time and a lot of persuasion for (nearly) everybody to do what the sensible ones have been doing all along.
Hang in there!
Thank you to the 95% of you, who support something as basic as responsible drinking and educating our youth.
Kathy - you are correct, teenagers are smarter & more aware of the dangers than we were.
@ "parents fault" - I grew up in an abusive alcoholic household and grew up in the real world with all of its vices. That doesn't mean we can't continue to strive for a better life. I choose not to drink, smoke or even swear in front of my children. Its called parenting by example.
Kathleen - You say you want the government (police) to stay out of your house. Well that's fine until you affect the lives of others, as in serving alcohol to minors.
Theo -- you keep doing what you are doing. We need more intelligent and sensible youths to be active and involved citizens. You will meet a lot of interesting characters along the way, but "believe in yourself" and ignore them.
Parents need to take responsibility, I mean it is their house! If they're stupid enough to serve alcohols to minors, they need to face the consequences.
Laurie Frater wrote:
“A lot of people fought wearing seat belts when that became law, no matter how much sense it makes and how many lives they've saved.”
Ms. Frater makes a good point. You need to start a like campaign amongst your friends and schoolmates so that if any of them are driving their parents’ car (say to the prom, a school dance or a school basketball game) and they or their passengers are not wearing their seat belts, they should immediately notify the police. That way the parents can be fined and/or prosecuted. I’m confident that we can expand this to all facets of our lives. Go get ‘em, Theo!
Dear Anonymous @ 8:03,
I have an IQ test for you:
1) Your minor son/daughter gets into a car wreck and injures/kills someone and causes considerable property damage. Who will get sued?
Hint: it's not the minor
2) Your minor son/daughter throws a party at your house and someone gets seriously hurt at this party. Who will get sued?
Hint: it's not the minor
3) Who refuses to accept the fact that they are ultimately responsible for the actions of their minor children?
Hint: it's you
@anonymous "You need to start a like campaign amongst your friends and schoolmates so that if any of them are driving their parents’ car" this was obviously posted by our favorite whacko but we do need to consider the Hitler Youth Movement and the very real facts of this historical event. The lines between freedom and tyranny are very fine and it is a wonderful thing to live in a location where the yin and yang of life can operate so openly (I do not fear storm troopers at my door for making this post). I personnally live with someone whose entire family was slaughtered by the Nazis and can understand how well meaning sentiments can become out of control. However, I would not understand this were it not for my personal connection. I would never have such deep empathy for it were it not for this connection, my own family history (fortunately) never experienced such horror. So as krazy as we may think our whacko is we are reminded us of a reality we hope we never experience.
Yes, it's quite obvious that every issue we tackle in this city brings us one step closer to Hitler's Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.
Give me a break.
You are incredibly insensitive to the actual event, demean anyone actually impacted by that unimaginably horrible period, and have absolutely no sense of proportion.
@Anonymous (8:22 PM)
Funny how the previous Hitler related post (Fix Pacifica Hitler Post) didn't bother you one bit Anonymous. Perhaps it was because it served your political agenda. You are a complete hypocrite and a complete phony!
In our Pacifica High Schools we have students attending our schools that live in Daly City, San Bruno, Brisbane, Hunters Point, San Francisco. What is to stop students from driving to those cities to party and drink?
Golden Gate Park in San Francisco has summer events and concerts where you can buy any drug and liquor.
This is not an ordinance to protect the young people of Pacifica. This is an ordinance that will create bigger taboos against alcohol, against our freedoms and rights. An ordinance that will remove more control from rights of parents and their children.
Many cultures serve wine and champagne on days of Celebrations. How you gonna stop that?
Fight this ordinance, it does nothing to help the victims, but does more harm.
Guv'ment can't make you go to school. I dropped out and turned out grate.
Mmmmm... Drinking. Guv'ment better stop creating taboo against drinking. Me, Beck, and Limbaugh loves us some recreational drugs and alcohol. Drinking helps me forget about all those scary blacks in Detroit.
That is some pretty darn clever highbrow comedy shtick, Snotty Scotty. I now see why you were so darn critical of others who have attempted to inject their lame brand of comedy into this site. You really need to take it to the next level though - say, "Open Mike Tuesdays" at the Stanford Comedy Club. Oh wait, you have... For anyone who may have missed the comic genius of Ventriloquist Snotty Scotty and his whacky sidekick Knotty Potty Mouth, allow his glib posts here to serve notice as to a style that can best be described as "thinking man's comedy".
BTW, the best part of the act was upon completion of Scotty's 5 minutes of standup, Knotty Potty Mouth asks Scotty, "Is that all?". To which Scotty replies, "You ain't seen nuthin' yet". Knotty then pulls up Scotty's kilt and says, "Yes we have". I love these guys...
Kathleen responds with reasoned considerations and objections, and people hiding behind fake names pounce on her. Real heroics and courage guys.
That's not me... Looks more like your brand of "comedy".
There are already laws to prevent this kind of thing, its called contributing to the delinquency of a minor. It is a criminal, not a civil, offense. But, while this may be a well intentioned ordinance the reality is that people will have to report it.
The only time these things get reported is when there are tragedies, such as the kids in Orinda that had the party while their parents were out of town.
In my opinion, one of the best ways for a child to learn to be responsible is if his or her parents have high, but practical, standards/expectations for their childs behavior, and show that they are willing to put trust in their child to make the right choices, even when they are not around. I am 20 years old, and I never threw a party, alcoholic or otherwise, when my parents were not home. I knew that if they found out, it would hurt them deeply and betray the trust they had given me. It was my choice to not throw a party. I knew the difference between right and wrong, just as every teenager does. Both parents and the education system teach kids right and wrong, and how to make the right choices. If parents are not home, and place trust in their kids that a party will not be thrown, how is that bad parenting, or wrong? A kid, especially if they are over the age of 15, knows they aren't supposed to be drinking and is quite aware of the reprecussions that may occur if they do drink, and end up in trouble or caught.
This motion that the youth of this area are attempting to make legitimate is just plain stupid, and is targetting the wrong party. How are kids going to be held responsible and learn from their actions, their mistakes, and respect the legal system, if they are not personally held accountable for what they have done wrong? Yes, it is the parents' house. But it is the child's conscious decision to do something illegal which they have been taught to not do. Have public speakers who have had friends die in drunken car accidents address the student body of the schools, have police crack down harder on underage parties. Find ways to prevent underage drinking and educate, without unjustly punishing the parents who, in many cases, are doing the best they can in raising their children.
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