Monday, November 9, 2009
KQED Forum: The Future of Sharp Park (11-9-2009)
Posted by: Rocky
Here's an interesting dialogue between Brent Plater, Ian Butler, and Ken King (Sierra Club, HMB Planning Commission):
Sharp Park Economically Viable
In light of Nancy Wuerful's recent report, seems like Butler and Plater come across as the fringe environmentalists they truly are, disregarding such pesky things as facts and figures.
Added by: Jeff Simons
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
24 comments:
I don't think I heard one thing Brent Plater said that was even remotely close to the truth. Kudoes to Jackie Speier and Phillip Ginsburg for pursuing an honest assessment over a biased agenda. And a big golf clap for Richard Harris for maintaining his demeanor . . . when Plater compared people wanting an honest assessment of the golf course's finances to the Obama Birthers who will never be satisfied no matter how many birth certificates they see . . . yeah, I probably would have reached across the table and given Plater a love tap.
Plater's from michigan? isnt that state messed up? google michigan especially detroit. Probably full of national parks that no one goes to. Now here he is, great, goodie for us. Yeah, Kudos to Speier, she's my new hero. And, Ginsberg, I bet he wanted to strangle that youngster who probably wont even be around that snake park of his (if he gets his way) in 50-100 years, give me a fricken break.
Yeah, and what's going on with the cats? I have been hearing a lot about feral cats lately in our "open spaces". Great, now the cats will eat the snakes, cause that's what they do, peta will get involved. PETA vs Rad Environs. What next! How much money does the ggnr spaces in pacifica make? any revenue? who pays for open space? what the heck is open space other than between platers head.
I googled detroit like kathleen asked and it looks like there's lots of coloreds there. They's even worse than them sneaky chinese like leland yee.
WAKE UP! Detroit is just like Hunters Point and Commie Mirakarimi from Chicago is the supervisor for Hunters Point, well not really, but he acts like he is. I like colords and Chinese people, but they are Communists who want to destroy America and make it marxist and run by the UN. Many colords and chinese in the UN. Glen Beck said so. I thought Detroit is in Nebrasca. Is Bret Platter colord, I think he must be? You know its true it was on youtube. WAKE UP!
I think we have moles on our Blog. I'm sorry that some people cannot have a conversation without mocking someone's opinion. I find it interesting that some of these people cannot find enough to talk about on their own Riptide Blog and are attempting to cause trouble here.
I Googled "moron" and Sinai and Bell came up. Who woulda guessed...
Please work harder on your insults, Kathleen's Marine.
Steve Sinai: Oh you such a tea-bagger. You a right wing nut too, I know dis 'cause Keith Obummermann tell me so. I sit in Rev Wright's Church for 20 years but I not hear nothin. But I know dares 57 states in U.S.S.A. Me a smart libtard, scuse me, I means right wing nut. 70% of Pacifica is just like me. Dat makes me right, I mean left, well you know what I mean... Glad we had dis chat...
Eeek. Some people just shouldn't try their hand at comedy.
interestingly enough, Plater claims in the interview that the red legged frog population is growing at Mori Point in this interview. Since the red legged frog is the primary food source for the San Francisco Garter Snake . . . well either Plater is correct and Ian Butler is lying or vice versa. Can't have it both ways, fellas.
(horrible sentence structure, Jeff! Never post before coffee again!)
Sentence srtucture is the least of Jeff's problems. His logic structure is far worse. It seems to go like this:
Snakes eat frogs. If there are more frogs, then there must be more snakes. Since Brent said there are more frogs, and Ian said there are less snakes, one of them must be lying.
Reality is more complex than that, and there are many possible explanations that don't involve lying. (For one thing, less snakes could directly lead to more frogs.)
I'm not infallibe, and I'm sure that I have made some incorrect assumptions, but I can assure you I have never posted anything that I knew to be false.
So please Jeff, stop accusing me of lying every time you don't understand something. And for God's sake, have some coffee.
well you're correct on one thing, ian. I never considered the possibility that you're BOTH lying. Who knows? The story, the evidence, the explanations change on a daily basis. Its hard to follow, even after I have had my coffee. Less snakes could lead to more frogs, but more frogs would then lead to more snakes. That's how an ecosystem achieves balance. Supply and demand.
I guess its hard to argue that keeping the golf course will cause 2 species to become extinct when right next door people claim there are restored wetlands and more frogs and more baby snakes.
The best part of the Mori Point restoration work is that it undermines the land grab for the golf course, and minimizes the need for habitat in the Quarry. Talk about win-win!
Ian said:
"I'm not infallibe, and I'm sure that I have made some incorrect assumptions, but I can assure you I have never posted anything that I knew to be false."
Ian said (from a previous thread re. Ron Maykel):
"...there is no game on earth important enough to justify the permanent extinction of a species.
Just want to know, would you characterize the previous statement you made with respect to SPGC as:
A. Hyperbole
B. Gross exaggeration
C. Propaganda
D. Misleading
E. Mis-truth
F. Misspeak
G. A Platerism
H. An incorrect assumption on your part
I. Blatantly false
J. All of the above
Just for the record I have lived next door to Mori Point for 25 years and have walked those trails in all kinds of weather at all times of the year. I have never seen the famous frog or snake Plater speaks so lovingly about, not before Mori Point's restoration or since But I have recently watched taxpayers unknowingly spend 2 million dollars on a boardwalk so the snakes and frogs can safely cross the road and I see off leash dogs and mountain bikers out there all the time who do not give a darn about the fact that it is an Endangered Species Habitat. So I am somewhat mystified by Plater's statement that snakes and frogs are doing great at Mori's Point.
I think the cats eat the snakes. Bout ten years ago, I turned the hose on a big cat who had a snake in it's mouth. This was by a creek. That was one angry cat.
Jeff,
A charitable scientist would characterize your post as an "oversimplified hypothesis not supported by the evidence". I prefer the term "jibberish".
Rocky,
K. Heartfelt personal opinion.
Ian,
I'm willing to bet a box of hostess Twinkies that I know far more "scientists" than you will ever meet. If there is more of a food supply in an ecosystem, the balance will then favor the growth of the species higher up on the food chain, unless there is a higher predator in the ecosystem. Unless you think Darwin is "jibberish".
Your problem is that your "scientific" argument is predicated on dubious assumptions, misleading or factually incorrect information, and "heartfelt opinion". The scientific method says you get your evidence, then work towards a conclusion. You and Plater have an agenda, so you're going to fudge your data to fit your foregone conclusion. In other words, the opposite of the scientific method.
btw I added a Coastsider blog "dialogue" posted by Ken King (Sierra Club, Half Moon Bay Planning Commission) with comments by Ian Butler and Brent Plater. Maybe its just me, but when you're trashing a respected member of the Sierra Club, its time to check how far out your brand of environmentalism goes . . .
So Ian, you are asking the thousands of golfers who count on SPGC as their recreational source to give up that activity based upon your heartfelt personal opinion? Even when your heartfelt personal opinion is at odds with the designation that the USFWS (the federally appointed subject experts) has placed upon SPGC with respect to the recovery of the SFGS and the RLF? Don't you think that is unreasonable? Wouldn't you think it would be unreasonable for me to ask you to give up comedy just because my personal heartfelt opinion was that you're not funny? Just asking...
Rocky,
You have Ian all wrong. He claimed the golf course was losing money, so it would make more money by cutting out half the course. Then he claimed the snakes were dying by making a video where a zookeeper said they're seeing more baby snakes. He wants to remove the berm to put the homeowners in jeopardy, but put it back when the frogs and snakes can enjoy it. He wants a peer review of an independent report that wasn't allowed to be doctored by his peers.
That's high comedy!
Yeah, I'm laughing all the way to the bank.
I finally got around to listening to the podcast. I noticed that Mirkarimi was saying we should close the golf course so that the money could be spent on things like inner-city parks and recreation centers. Yet Plater was claiming the money saved by shutting down the golf course would be sunk into other city-run golf courses, which would make golf better for everyone.
These guys need to get their stories straight.
Post a Comment