4 Council Members - 7 years bad management
Last January (2008) was the "last straw" for Peebles Corporation when the city council negotiation team (Vreeland and Lancelle) proposed re-starting the previously researched vetting process for their privately owned quarry property to include public-private partnerships. The adjacent Mori Point property has one: GGNRA, a national park. Is that what they had in mind?
Privately owned quarry redevelopment, a rejected economic plan for Pacifica:
Was the proposal solid? It was, and had the city signed and returned the project outline letter a legally binding contract would have been in effect.
Was there a plan? There was, a multi-page, detailed report sent to the city and each city councilmember.
Who is responsible for this failure? The legislative body of this city: 7 year city council 4. Only Councilmember Hinton departed from the 4, and clearly supported this major city improvement.
Why? City councilmembers 4 have offered no comment.
Do city councilmembers 4 serve the best interest of this city and are their actions transparent? Selectively, but the underlying answer is no.
Submitted by Kathy Meeh
46 comments:
So, what shall we name this quarry picture?
Maybe we're done with this conversation, if not this post is a continuation from the evolved quarry development conversation from "Pacifica Sued by Environmental Advocacy Group".
Some development ideas (or not) were presented:
1. Mike outlined the financial, ecological, recreational advantages for the mixed-use village.
2. Steve brought up suggestions of 1) an outlet store mall, 2) big retail or 3) a casino.
3. Bush's Fault said a marina would be appropriate.
4. Sulu suggested cost cutting, therefore nothing has to be done I suppose.
5. I brought-up the "Wal Mart" fear (hey its cash), but I prefer mixed-use or the Outlet Mall.
6. Scotty and others of us agree something which produces (efficient) tax revenue needs to be developed there.
6. Lois said "there have been lots of suggestions (over 10-12 years)....that have been ignored" by City Council?
Since city council 4 went way out-of-their-way to ruin our city economy over 7 years by working against quarry and other larger scale development, we can be sure they do have a plan (not disclosed to the people of Pacifica)-- so what is it?
Hopefully Peebles Corporation will sell the property to the biggest, baddest, meanest developer they know who also has a plan to prevail (or buy the city).
I suggested in my Ripoff blog that Peebles donate the entire Quarry to the GGNRA. That seems like a big WIN-WIN to me. Okay so there won't be any tax revenue for Pacifica, but just think... God I'm good!
John I know you have a brain, but at the moment it seems to be absent. How do you figure zero services, jobs and tax revenue is anything but a LOSE, LOSE for a city? Or, is the point that you are looking for the city to fail?
One word, Kathy..."Grants". Come over to my Ripfart blog and find information on how to write grant applications.
Speaking of grants, I just taught my dog Burrito to stand up and beg and now he's on welfare.
I think it would be safe to say that John should stay on his side of this fight...nothing helpful there.
I know, maybe Mr. Potter will buy the Quarry. We can call it Pottersville. Yeah, that's the ticket... We can have strip bars, casinos, tatoo parlors and flop houses. Yeah... I can see it now. God I'm good.
Big box stores would be disasterous. Pacifica is already awash in tacky development.
I'm for 5 star Hotel/Spa/Casino linking trails, beaches, golf and urban-coastal housing. Fix Hiway One connectors and sewer.
Let's really make our environment our economy.
A Marina with high density hotels, restaurants, commercial and urban-coastal housing would be spectacular but required earthwork would be held up in court by the John Curtis minions for decades.
Okay funny stuff "Joint Maybury", dog "Burrito", and "Ripfart" blog, at John's expense. Think you caught the downward civilization drift perfectly.
No I'm not dense just inattentive and spooked by the comment by Butch that John declined another email of his, happened to me last week.
Joint Maybury,
Have you been smoking turd blossoms again?
Sheet. Stuck on an island with a bunch of crazy arses. Be home soon. Save Pacifica!
Hypothetical:
Suppose the developer of the Vacaville Outlet Stores was willing to buy the Quarry and develop an Outlet Mall there. Suppose he was offering shares in his venture. My question of you is: Would you be willing to exchange your long term investment/retirement portfolio, e.g., 401k/IRA/Keogh, stocks. bonds, real estate, CDs, savings accounts, commodities, for some of those shares? I will even spot you a supportive City Council. Just wondering...
I'd need more information than what was offered in the hypothetical, but I'd definitely consider buying shares in an outlet mall in the Quarry. The company that developed the Vacaville, Gilroy, Petaluma, and dozens of other malls under the Chelsea name - Simon Property Group, says their malls were 98% leased in the summer of 2008 (latest information I could find,) their stock charts look alright, and the company gets good comments from analysts.
I wouldn't invest my whole retirement portfolio into a single venture, though.
The outlet mall in the Quarry was originally Barbara Carr's idea, not mine. It just always made sense to me, and still does.
An outlet mall in the quarry makes zero sense.
The demographics are all wrong, one side being bounded by the ocean. Access is bad.
There are reasons why Target, Trader Joes, and Fresh and Easy aren't here already, and it's got nothing to do with the political leadership (or lack thereof) in Pacifica.
I agree with everything Lionel said, minor modification on Fresh and Easy . . . the reason they aren't here is partly because of the recession, and partly because they grossly overestimated the market conditions in Northern California, not just Pacifica. However, I think the original idea of mixed-use, downtown, civic, and commercial development is perfect for the Quarry.
The problem is getting it past the BANANA group (Buildings Are Not Allowed Near Anything) that holds political control of Pacifica. They hold accountability for turning away Peebles, Barry Swenson, Trammel Crow, and discouraging any type of investment into the community, all in the name of "preservation" that has led to both economic and environmental decay in Pacifica.
Oh you've barely scratched the surface with this one, bub:
Next, there's the BANANA SPLITS group (Stop Progress; Leave It The Same)
Then, there's the BANANA PEEL group (Pacifca's Environment is their Economy, Loser!)
And, of course, my personal favorite, the BANANA DAIQUIRI group (Doesn't Anyone Investing in the Quarry Understand It Really Isn't [theirs]?)
Me thinks Pacifica might be a Banana Republic!
Jerry Quarry currently ranks as Pacifica's #1 Funny Guy in my book!
Mike it seems that city council leadership and their cronies are not about "class" or much that is a logical "recreation" progression for this city, proof positive with aggravation and blockage of quarry development. So, plan A which most of us would prefer may not work, except maybe with a new city council through election 2010.
In the sale of the property to another private developer and the usual demographic research, plan B an Outlet Mall might be a better option as described by Steve. Also, other businesses may build-up around the Mall, namely restaurants and such. Access can be improved Lionel through developer traffic mitigation (a regulation code requirement for such projects).
Demographics? Upper to mid San Mateo Peninsula, San Francisco, the coastal cities though Half Moon Bay--this is a really big area. The ocean location would be an incentive to visit our area not a negative as described by city council in their effort to feed citizens of this city "banana splits" (stop progress; leave it the same), acronym from Jerry Quarry above.
Little snag, we don't have control of what a private property owner might want to do with the property. Wish our views were closer on this Lionel, but based upon some limited real estate economic knowledge and research I'm pretty sure Steve is right on this one.
Pacifica code word dictionary: preservation = decay. That's pretty funny in a sick city way too Jeff.
Demographics isn't an issue with an outlet mall. It's a destination that would draw people from all over SF and San Mateo County. Something with a maritime theme would also make it more attractive.
I also don't see why being next to the ocean is a problem. I consider it a positive. People like the ocean.
We need something unique, that you can't find nearby. I think Pacificans genuinely don't want much more housing in town, (unless it's up on Skyline - an area nobody cares about,) and any project that includes more than a hundred or so housing units in the Quarry will fail in the required vote. Plus, I doubt the housing market will be strong anytime soon, so there's a practical problem in getting a developer interested in any project in the Quarry that involves housing.
Looks like I was channeling Kathy, or vice-versa.
Glad to save you the comment post Steve.
Since eveyone chimed in on what is on their quarry wish list is, I wish we would build; trails to a Two Screen Theatre, In door Ice Hockey/Roller Rink, ice cream parlor, healthfood restaurant, bike rental shop, dog park, live music bar, coffee shop ending in more trails to a beautiful refurbished Sharp Park Golf Course. Ooh , I would love that so. I don't want anymore houses or big box stores. We need more recreation, indoors, it's cold here a lot of the times. This should keep us busy for the next 100 years.
Hey Kathleen good to see you back. Throw-in a frog and snake zoo and you might get some of those Riptide readers to agree with you, minus the actual structural development; and from some of their posts a rock pile might be preferred to an elitist golf course.
Everything you've suggested would be a civilized civic improvement to this city. The reason for including a housing element I believe was primarily the village economic synergy and the redevelopment cash advantage.
"Demographics isn't an issue with an outlet mall. It's a destination that would draw people from all over SF and San Mateo County."
Talk to a commercial real estate person about that. Demographics, and good access are more than half the ballgame.
Every outlet mall I've ever seen (including the ones that have failed) is smack next to an interstate freeway. Highway One, as everyone knows, is a disaster.
Bingo.
Precisely why Hiway One is a mess and will continue to be a mess as long as this cabal is in power.
It conveniently Stops All Progress (SAP).
These saps are sapping our city of all vitality, making saps of everyone who continues to support their misguided cause.
A outlet mall is an interesting idea, which in all practicality would work. Do you see any energy on behalf of this 7 year city council to promote any economic development whatsoever? Their function seems to be to hand-out "certificates" for volunteerism, promote their friends to committees and commissions, write grants and manipulate "pet" projects (except not actual pet projects such as nice dog park for this community).
Anyhow "if you don't build it, they won't come." And, ironically "if you don't build it" chances are that Highway 1 will never get fixed until global warming solves that problem (splish splash).
The developer must mitigate traffic, money, expertise and a different "pro progress" city council would increase the chances that highway 1 would get fixed-- lets do that much for 2010.
since the opponents of Measure E and measure L trotted out the "TRAFFIC!!" claims both times, I would say they have a vested interest in keeping traffic choked along Pacifica's strip of HWY 1, so their #1 scare tactic against development of the quarry won't go away any time soon. I'd hate to tell you Councilman Pete Dejarnatt (the PSD preferred candidate and John Curtis mouth piece) said during his candidate interview with the San Mateo County Democratic Central Committee in regards to his solution for HWY 1. I'll give you a hint, it had nothing to do with development, traffic mitigation, or matching funds.
We have Ross. I remember there used to be another outlet type store across from Ross that did not work. I have friends that are experts at shopping and they have told me, we, Pacifica, has the nicest Ross in the whole Bay Area.
When is the tunnel opening up?
I think a two screen theater would be a better idea, with a hockey/skating rink. It is very cold most of the year in Pacifica. We need more indoor activities and no outlet stores. Tanforan has been opening more and more outlets in their mall. We need something different. South of the slide peeps will want to come in town for a movie and a cocktail. Hockey is really popular with p-twn kids. You should anticipate the economy, outlets will be popping up more and more at the bigger malls. No one around here has a Hockey/Skating Rink. It is sooo popular in the winter months, when they pop up in the city, you can hardly get on the skating rink. I go every year. It is loads of fun.
Kathleen, moot point anyway, we'll be fortunate if any developer can fix the quarry before the County or GGNRA takes total control over this city-- if not you can plant a "Smokey the Bear" on your front lawn, and a Curtis dart board in your recreation room. Any developer will do feasibility studies in their pre-development process, just as Peebles did.
Okay Jeff, what's the highway solution other than let the situation get to be such a mess that the State has to step-in?
I'm just curious. Are you people thinking of buying the Quarry from Peebles and implementing your ideas/projects? Peebles seems to be recognized in the busines community, and as well by this administration, as one of the top entrepreneurs of the 21st century. He didn't garner this reputation by being reckless with his or his investor's money. I'm sure if Peebles saw a favorable ROI in outlet stores, hockey rinks, etc., he would do it. Face it. Only one project makes financial sense to Peebles and Pacifica killed it. If you want your pie-in-the-skies to materialize, you'll need to take the property off of Peebles' hands. What was his last asking price?
Kathy,
That was Pete's plan!
Let Hiway 1 get so bad that the State would step in. He had the same plan for Beach Blvd seawall and the same plan for sewer laterals.
That's the way this Council thinks.
Avoid responsibility until it get's so bad that "nanny government" has to step-in and do the job for them.
Oops! The government is broke.
Time to start another pet project so our friends will feel good.
Jeffey,
I know you watch Countdown with Olbermann.
Let's start Pacifica's Worst Person of the Week.
I nominate Pete deJarnatt as our kick-off. Bloggers can then add comments, stories, examples, etc. We should post his sorry mug as well.
Yeah, you're right, Kathy, this whole blog is a moot point. Like I said, it is too late. And, as I said before, maybe the people in charge want to bankrupt the city so govment takes over, like detroit. But, it feels good to imagine that we have any power to do anything about it. So, back to my fantasy bout a hockey rink............
Kathleen,
hey did I tell you the town where we now reside has a mall with a regulation size indoor hockey rink? and a 24-theater movie complex on the third floor? There is so much commerce here, but you know what else we have? Paved roads, state of the art parks for the kids, adequate police and fire protection, new schools . . . and a ton of open space and greenbelts.
Bell Boy,
an inspired idea I already tried with Brent Plater. He remains at the top of the list until the Golf Course is saved. But run it by Rocky and Sinai, I'm sure we here at Fix Pacifica can accommodate . . .
Lionel, demographics isn't an issue because an outlet mall (and I'm not talking about a shopping mall that happens to have a few outlet stores) would draw people from San Francisco and San Mateo County. If you think demographics is an impediment, could you explain in more detail what the problems would be?
I agree that the limited capacity of Highway 1 would be an issue, though.
Jeffrey Simons said:
"hey did I tell you the town where we now reside has a mall with a regulation size indoor hockey rink? and a 24-theater movie complex on the third floor?"
We had one here (S/M county)at one time. It was called Fashion Island. It died.
Rocky and Steve,
more thoughts on:
"Pacifica's Worst Person of the Week".
Keep it local.
Post a picture.
Change each Monday or Friday (doesn't matter which day as long as it's consistant)
Bloggers post comments on the current worst person and then nominates the next. Most votes wins. Curtis, Howard, Vreeland,...............
Just my two cents, but if you find your picture or name featured in an article on this blog, you've pretty much already won the prize.
Whyz everyone movin to Texas?
That is actually a song.
@Jerry Quarry,
I used to go there. It was once beautiful and very fun. City drove them out. Cali hates private industry. Remember, 2008 Cali Legislature killed the law that said you cannot be a communist and work for California Government. Now you can belong to the CPUSA and work for our Government. WeeHooo! I bet those commies had a real good party after they killed that law.
Whyz everyone movin to Texas?
well if you can put up with the heat during the summer and some of the harder right wing attitudes, people are moving here because the economy is doing well, there are plenty of good jobs, and you can afford to buy a house on a comfortable middle class salary. There's a commitment to the infrastructure like roads and parks and schools. and no one is trying to shake down a golf course to build a frog and snake preserve to placate their egos.
Lance sez,
Give the quarry back to the Native Americans then build a casino. Voila! Jobs, commerce, and a true commercial anchor.
Or as dear Anna Boothe suggested to Don Peebles (I swear it's true) a GRAVEYARD!!!!
It is, after all, a growing business.
@Lance, you are so correct. I was just looking into applying at a mortuary . I heard business is booming and they need help.
I'd take the casino over the outlet malls, as long as it had a $2.99 all-you-can-eat buffet.
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