Fix Pacifica: Planning Commission meeting agenda for December 5

Tuesday, November 29, 2011

Planning Commission meeting agenda for December 5

http://www.cityofpacifica.org/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=4654

Only in Pacifica, they try to shut down a businesses with outdoor seating(Gorilla BBQ) that was on a National TV show(Diners, Drive In's & Dives)!!!

Submitted by Jim Alex

50 comments:

Anonymous said...: Shame on City Council for doing this. Gangsta Government. Flip them the bird.; November 29, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Shame on Jim Alex and Anon 2:13 for misrepresenting what's in the staff report. You can read it if you click on the link.; November 29, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Kathy Meeh said...: Really Anonymous 326, the city could work harder at supporting business development. Another denial, how much did that cost Gorilla BBQ? Their business is cooking food and promoting business, not filing perfect paperwork.

These denials make the city look like preventing business expansion is a negative, draconian duty, whereas these denials only hurt the business, the community, and the city. How about finding a way to be helpful? And, maybe there's a private service that would (for a small fee) assist these filings.; November 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM
Steve Sinai said...: The city isn't trying to shut down Gorilla, but I would be very understanding if the Gorilla owners decided to leave Pacifica, rather than deal with all the absurd red tape required to simply set up a few picnic tables.; November 29, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Anonymous said...: I was all set to jump on board about the ridiculous level of red tape but after actually reading the posted material I have no problem with what the city has done on this one. There are public health issues and property concerns that must be addressed. For whatever reason-ambivalence, lack of organization, landlord problems, whatever--the applicants/appellants dropped the ball. Their business is food not paperwork and they might benefit greatly from some paid professional help with the process beyond that which the city has given them but that's a business decision they'll have to make. BTW, what impact would the road widening have on Gorilla?; November 29, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Doesn't the SBA offer help for bureaucracy-challenged business owners?; November 29, 2011 at 5:10 PM
todd bray said...: They certainly have the fame to relocate to another community but as Steve points out planning staff have been attempting to make it happen... literally for close to two years now. Rich and Jeff need a helping hand with the process no doubt; November 29, 2011 at 5:22 PM
Anonymous said...: The city did everything it could to facilitate the permit according to the requirements the city has to follow. Get a clue.; November 29, 2011 at 5:33 PM
King Kong said...: Didn't these guys have a problem with just the name, Gorilla BBQ, because they are an endangered species!?; November 29, 2011 at 6:27 PM
Steve Sinai said...: Evidence of permission from the property owner makes sense.

Requiring a restroom for a few picnic tables is ridiculous, unless a porta-potty suffices.; November 29, 2011 at 6:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe a PR problem in some minds but it blew over. I think they were really just trying to honor the image of a gorilla as strong, wise and king of his domain.; November 29, 2011 at 6:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Depends on the county health department and their codes, doesn't it? Not something where corners can be cut no matteer how much we like the food or how broke down this city is.; November 29, 2011 at 6:59 PM
Anonymous said...: There's absolutely nothing wrong with requiring a restroom. Poor Hal and Barbara at Vallemar Station get all of the Occupy Gorilla folks at their place using the toilet, and they said some of the people said Big Rich told them to go there.; November 29, 2011 at 7:26 PM
Steve Sinai said...: I would like to know the reasoning behind requiring a restroom for a small group of picnic tables. (I'm assuming these are the picnic tables above the back of the parking lot.)

If people want to sit in their cars and eat in the parking lot, is a restroom required for that? If not, why the fuss about eating at a picnic table a few steps away from the car?

This sounds like government bureaucrats not knowing when to stop.; November 29, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Kathy Meeh said...: "....Vallemar Station get all of the Occupy Gorilla folks at their place using the toilet..."

Imagine the inconvenience of people getting out of the BBQ train-car "take-out" line, (losing a precious place in line), and walking way over to a competitive full-service restaurant. Then, trailing through the bar, back to the restaurant host reception station. All this, rather than waiting to get home or using the public restroom at Rockaway. Most people would find that experience embarrassing. "Interesting" story though, Anon (726).

For take-out and a "few outside picnic tables", would a landlord really be interested in building a plumed restroom facility? Steve (656) summarized that one: "ridiculous".

"...permit according to the requirements the city has to follow." Anon (533), I'm sure there is a city "check list" of requirements. But, this is the second actual hearing rejection. Why would an insufficient project be allowed to advance again to a known hearing rejection?

Last night another insufficient project "check list" without solution was allowed to advance to a city council hearing-- and, that was even more "ridiculous". Apparently 1 landlord (or group), multiple businesses. From the view of a layperson, it seems certain businesses which fall into the zoned category guidelines could have been extended some blanket pre-approved consideration as potentially acceptable light industrial rental units. The owner was looking for a time-certain, in event the land on north Palmetto cliffs was subject to alternative zoning. Net result: waste of city time, plus applicant time and lots of money.; November 29, 2011 at 11:26 PM
ian butler said...: I do see a distinction between a to-go establishment and one that provides seating, even if it's just a few picnic tables.

Maybe they could pay Vallemar Station or Guerrero's a few bucks to let their customers use the rest room.; November 29, 2011 at 11:34 PM
Anonymous said...: The county health dept runs that show and does a pretty good job. Seems like a restroom would be a real good idea if people can eat and drink at tables on the premises. Cars don't count. If they really are sending patrons to Vallemar Station for the potties then there's already a need. Same landlord but that seems kind of pushy...if true.; November 29, 2011 at 11:38 PM
Steve Sinai said...: "Seems like a restroom would be a real good idea if people can eat and drink at tables on the premises. Cars don't count."

Explain your reasoning, please.; November 29, 2011 at 11:53 PM
Steve Sinai said...: Hell, even Maybury says this is ridiculous.

http://www.pacificariptide.com/pacifica_riptide/2011/11/zoned-out-city-of-pacifica-vs-gorilla-barbeque-picnic-grounds.html; November 29, 2011 at 11:56 PM
todd bray said...: Nona's space is empty.; November 30, 2011 at 12:32 AM
Anonymous said...: Not to be crude but the longer you stay in one place the more likely you are going to need a restroom and one should be readily available because when you gotta go, you gotta go. Also, if a restaurant chooses to encourage you to linger and eat on the premises then it seems reasonable a restroom should be available. And you've got to wonder, where do the employees go to, uh, wash up? Vallemar Station?; November 30, 2011 at 12:33 AM
rip curl surfer says said...: Hey man Vreeland built us surfers bathrooms at Linda Mar and Rockaway. Where did he find this money. Maybe the gorilla customers can use our bathrooms at the beach?

The surfers bring in zero money into the town bank account. Gorilla bbq is a thriving business.; November 30, 2011 at 7:43 AM
Anonymous said...: "There are public health issues and property concerns that must be addressed." If that was the case then picnics would be banned. Oh, don't give the government any ideas.; November 30, 2011 at 9:01 AM
Anonymous said...: County Health Dept will sort it out for us. They couldn't care less about the petty squabbles.; November 30, 2011 at 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: What if I choose to linger at the top of Mori's Point, and suddenly have to go. Are there restrooms up there?

Perhaps we should close down Mori's Point until restrooms are built, 'cause when you gotta go, you gotta go.; November 30, 2011 at 12:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Are you lingering at a restaurant with tables??? Looking for a bush or tree to hide behind?? You can go now.; November 30, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Anon1244, You're struggling with the concept and I think we know your solution. Stay home.; November 30, 2011 at 1:00 PM
Anonymous said...: I thought all restaurants had to provide washrooms, even takeout places. Where do the employees go to the bathroom and wash their hands?; November 30, 2011 at 2:52 PM
Kathy Meeh said...: "Where do the employees go to the bathroom and wash their hands?"

Good point Anon (252), anyone know? Maybe, what exists is not suitable for the public. Apparently the city doesn't think it is.; November 30, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Steve Sinai said...: I'm sure there's already an employee restroom. It looks like the city (or county) expects Gorilla to install another restroom for those who want to use the picnic tables.; November 30, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Anonymous said...: On-site consumption of prepared food requires a toilet facility be available to patrons. In this case I believe that on-site includes any area under the control of the business owner. The county requires a restroom for employees either within the actual business or, in some cases, within 200 feet. Could it be the same restroom? Depends on the layout and whether adequate separation can be maintained between customers and food prep areas. The landlord has had experience with the County Health Dept. Trying to fly under the radar was never more than a temporary solution. Is this a good time to make improvements to the building or site for even a thriving business? That's up to the owners.; November 30, 2011 at 4:23 PM
Kathy Meeh said...: "...Is this a good time to make improvements to the building.."

Railroad car on a parking lot, that's the "building". Its take-out, Anon (423).; November 30, 2011 at 4:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Take out=no tables=no problem.; November 30, 2011 at 5:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe it's take-out on Mars but here in earthly Pacifica it's a restaurant with on-site food consumption as long as those tables are there. Nobody is picking on the boys but they have a problem
and now they must find a business solution. The health department rules are for our safety and are pretty straightforward. It isn't rocket science. Oops, of course it isn't or you'd be the expert being a space traveler and all.; November 30, 2011 at 6:06 PM
Anonymous said...: After this discussion does anyone still want to eat there?; November 30, 2011 at 6:33 PM
Laurie Frater said...: Let's not get carried away!
I know that the P-Town Cafe (similar facility!) has a small restroom with hand-washing facilities at the very back, and I'd be extremely surprised if the same wasn't true for Gorilla BBQ. (I doubt that it would pass inspection without it!) But if customers were allowed to use it, they'd have to pass through the food prep area, which I'm sure would breach Health & Safety rules, so Steve's assertion that they'd need an additional restroom for customers who choose to eat "on the premises" seems entirely logical.; November 30, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Ok, why hasn't anyone mentioned their so called ties with the Hell's Angels? Whether it is true or not, they have a right to outside dining just the same as Beth from Grape in the Fog has a permit to serve wine/food in the outside common area between 2 buildings. Are they being punished by their so called friendships?; November 30, 2011 at 10:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Whoa. This just went off track. Hells Angels conspiracy theory? Look, the requirement is that if they have tables outside, they have to have a restroom for customers. Grape In The Fog has one. Why is this so hard to understand?; December 1, 2011 at 7:09 AM
Anonymous said...: It's a regulation. Blaming this on the council is ridiculous and distracts from all the true damage they do.

Kathy, your silly story about people leaving the line would apply if they were only a takeout restaurant. This is about the people sticking around to eat their meal.; December 1, 2011 at 11:27 AM
Kathy Meeh said...: Driving by, this looks like a take-out restaurant with a long line to me. Next time you're there for "take out" you could ask, "where is the bathroom?" They seem like a friendly bunch, maybe they can tell you where to go.

Gee, guess I was too hard on "we can do nothing" city council deflection, ouch!; December 1, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Anonymous said...: On-site consumption requires patrons have access to a restroom either on the premises or within 200 feet. Access cannot be thru the food prep area.
Grape in the Fog complies. Gorilla does not. County Health dept doesn't give a rat's ass about who the customers are or their affiliations.; December 1, 2011 at 12:40 PM
Steve Sinai said...: "It's a regulation."

Everyone understands it's a regulation. The issue (at least for me) is whether it's an example of bureaucracy being carried to an illogical extreme.; December 1, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Kathy Meeh said...: "Grape in the Fog complies. Gorilla does not." This is similar to the comparison of Nicks to "Dog in a Box".

I was thinking, maybe city council could be our ceremonial mascots. They could do the usual "nothing in slow-motion" without the duty to expedite moving this city forward. We could choose them through a highest-vote contest.

Oh, here I go again "blaming" city council, as Anon, (1127) put it, "distracting from all the true damage they do."; December 1, 2011 at 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...: This is a bureaucracy most of us tolerate well. One bout of food poisoning and you're a believer. Clean and sanitary premises are good for business. Bottom line, great local restaurant and I wish them well!; December 1, 2011 at 1:37 PM
Anonymous said...: How do the supermarkets Lucky's and the market at park mall get away with bbq'n outside with no hand washing system for the employee bbq cooks?; December 1, 2011 at 2:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Hand-washing etc close enough right inside the market! I think that meets the requirement. Also, aren't those BBQ's temporary? That also may make a difference.; December 1, 2011 at 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...: If you think the rules are bad, go argue with the county and get them changed. I've never worked in the food industry but even I know that's the law, so it's difficult to give Gorilla a pass for whining about it.; December 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM
Steve Sinai said...: Maybe the Hells Angels can pay a friendly visit to the county health commissioner.; December 1, 2011 at 5:13 PM
Anonymous said...: I got it...A couple of port-a-potties and a hand washing station. Brilliant. Low cost, sanitary, a no brainer folks! :); December 1, 2011 at 6:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Brilliant, just brilliant!; December 1, 2011 at 9:36 PM