| Item 9. Ballot measure, city tax. An alternative to boosting city revenue is still economic development; or some have suggested bankruptcy. |
Attend in person, 2212 Beach Boulevard, 2nd floor. Or, view on local channel 26, also live internet feed, pct26.com. The meeting begins at 7pm, or shortly there following. City council updates and archives are available on the City website.
Direct: City Council Agenda, 7/8/13.
Fix Pacifica: City Council article, 7/8/13.
Note: the graphic money bag is from the International Herald Tribune.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
102 comments:
I hope everyone who want to be heard shows up at tonight's meeting. Pro or con Council needs to know how people feel.
There's a lot of ways to let council know how you feel, emails, , phone calls, letters, blogs and letters to editor.
Many of these methods are just as or more effective because officials have an actual copy of what you said in front of them. Also council is aware that many more people see some of the other ways more than they do a council meeting.
The one true way to have an impact on Council is to take the time to tell the in public at a meeting that has both minutes and a televised record and then follow it up in writing.
That's your opinion Tom. Some people have jobs. Many more people see this blog or read the Trib than see the meetings.
Tom, I've found the podium the least effective way of getting through to council and that most things have been decided in advance through advocacy or other means.
I would encourage advocacy whole heartedly, and thank you for dong the same. I truly hope council hears your voice and alters the UUT measure accordingly.
It would take an overwhelming turn-out of anti-tax speakers and protesters to derail this thing. It's just too well-planned and already underway. Best we can probably hope for is council throws in a shorter sunset clause, maybe 8 years? They want that money.
Look-out fellow taxpayers! We are the revenue.
Derail it at the ballot box. Unrestricted funds are wasted funds. Always have been. The money will go to wages, consultants, frills and pet projects and then they'll come back for more from the same UUT cash cow. Make them do their job and make some real cuts. Putting a tax on the ballot should be the last resort, not the first choice.
Anything more than 5 years is a non-starter for me.
Back in the day the real council meeting was held at the rose room in Pedro Point shopping center.
People who only go to the podium occasionally are probably a lot more effective than those who go up every meeting or two.
Steve, you are right. No tricks, no mirrors, you are simply right on this.
But then again some people never go and just sit around and bitch
@337 The Rose Room is gone, but they still make those little back-scratching deals before the public meeting.
The city council is better comedy then the real housewifes and the Batchelorette.
By a 5 to 0 vote Council placed the UUT Modernization on the November 2013 ballot with a sunset of 8 years, $500 annual business cap, and continuation of the current senior exemption.
Nice try by Mike suggesting a $250 limit for families. I almost spit my food out. I could sense the horror from Len and Mary Ann when he said that. That would actually help protect the poorer people in town but it would "effect the numbers" as Len put it.
Was Mary Ann serious "a scientific poll" haha
Ok the fight is on.
So how many people spoke for or against the tax?
I think the only clear opposition I heard was Therese Dyer and Laurie Goldberg! Not sure what Tod Schlesinger was about. Chris Fogel questioned council's methods and I think was opposed. Tom Clifford saw the need for the tax but urged a shorter sunset and means testing for exemptions. Lancelle, Jaquith, Kalima Salahuddin, Cindy Abbott, and another woman were all for it. Ms. Salhuddin is the committee chair for the UUT. Maybe 10 speakers total. Tried to watch it all but really obvious the decision had been made other than a little give and take on the sunset clause.
Sue Vanterlaus (speaking from her experience about city finances drawn from her years of being on the Financing City Services Task Force and currently being on the economic development committee) and Paula Teixera also spoke in favor of the tax.
clear majority in favor and they know how to get the vote out because several of them have done it before for the school districts. that's an experience they share with nihart ervin and oneill.
this tax will not succeed. "families with kids will pay more than Safeway" "council allows unlimited family tax because they are greedy bastards" all have a nice ring. Plus school districts get taxes passed because the districts don't pull underhanded campaign tricks like council has regarding this tax and voters like schools
Sounds like most of those speaking in favor of the tax were also part of the secret committee that has been meeting, along with Len, to devise this little tax scheme.This is really going to hurt those on a limited budget and small businesses that get hit twice.
There wasn't a "clear majority in favor" Most people who spoke in favor were part of the UUT commission. Ha.
More "citizens" spoke out against it than didn't. Larie Doldberg, Therese Dyer, Chris Fogel, Todd Schlesinger spoke out against the measure. Tom Clifford wanted protections and a shorter sunset.
Zero citizens that aren't affiliated with this UUT campaign or the city spoke. ZERO.
What does that tell you about general support for another new tax?
No council member co-chairs this dog. Bet you pink slips....
Pacifican's deserve the dying town they have.
No one speaks, and just let these bozo's on city council burn the place to the ground.
A clear majority of speakers last night were in favor of this tax. They spoke on the record and in the open. The Chamber of Commerce was not heard from. Council has already given this measure their full support. From the work of the sub-committee of Nihart and Stone all the way to last night's vote they are behind it. Wouldn't it be illegal for a councilmember to chair a ballot measure campaign?
No need to. With strong ties to the school community, they're using the same chair who ran the last successful school tax measure campaign.
IMO there is no realistic alternative to this tax. Any revenue from development is so far in the future and is completely speculative. We need to be honest about that and not hysterically brand that honesty as a lack of committment to development. A 5% pay cut sounds good, but, for now, there is no political will to take that any further. Council does come across as sneaky, but they're right about this tax. I don't want to pay more, for 8 long years, but I really don't want to any more damage done to this town and its residents.
Therese Dyer, Tod Schlesinger and Laurie Goldberg on the same side of an issue!!!Record the date and time for history.
@753 I think the people who spoke for it are "citizens" too.
11:13 everyone cries when they man tries to take a few more shekels out of the wallet.
You're dreaming anon 1058. A majority of speakers were NOT in favor of the tax. The only ones who spoke in favor of the tax were 2 X councilmembers, one who was successfully recalled (Jaquath) and one who destroyed any tax base we might have had (Lancelle). And people who are on the committee to push this tax through.
No normal citizens spoke in favor of the tax.
On the other hand 5 regular citizens spoke out against the tax or aired real concerns.
You think there's "no alternative to this tax"? Well sit back and wait until after it's defeated. The alternative is cutting wages and benefits which nobody will talk about now but they will be forced to after this fails.
Why the F should poor families struggling to get by have to pay big bucks so that upper management in Pacifica makes up to $200,000 a year?
Make cuts in wages, no need to lay off or cut services.
A final vote is scheduled for july 18.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Vote-no-on-OneBayArea-plan-4653628.php?t=7703f4600c
Lori Goldburg, another know it all member of the Vallemar "gang Of No"
I don't want a super freeway in Pacifica
I don't want development in Pacifica
I want Pacifica to be dusty broke and bankrupt.
Wasn't Julie Lancelle right in the middle of the council recall in the 90's that revolved around an increase in the UUT at that time? Didn't she get on council shortly after that?
Where are the historians when we need them?
1254 you're in denial. hang on to it.
Therese Dyer! Give them Hell Therese!!
Tod S. giving the council hell
Go Tod!!
Ginny Jaquith was recalled Julie Lancelle was not
None of these bozo's on city council have any clue.
I love it they are playing fear factor.
None of them have a clue that Pacifca needs the quarry and old waste water treatment plant.
Mike Oneil says Pacifica is a ship heading towards the rocks.
134 was that a UUT uproar? thought it was about a proposed lighting and landscaping tax that led to recall of 4 of 5 councilmembers, including jaquith, galehouse and ??? the only survivor was bonnie welles who read the crowd reaction correctly and voted no. didn't that lead to the all female council which included lancelle? those were the days when local politics was interesting.
tax and spend, this council only knows how to tax and spend
Laurie Goldberg and Theresa Dyer on the same side? What's next, Schlesinger and Curtis having a burger? It's unnatural.
WTF Is Karen talking about. If you don't trust us don't vote for us. But don't strangle your city?
WTF
Sue is talking about revenue. Rich!
The person who has destroyed the city is talking about revenue.
Now she thinks the castle doing weddings is going to save the city.
Please make this stop!!
Watching City Council is even worse then watching the last place cellar dweller Giants.
Mary Ann whining about people blaming city council members.
Now she is talking about robbing Peter to Pay Paul
Speakers against weren't very persuasive. Where was the Chamber?
Going to sit this one out?
How about Mary Ann saying "people are in favor of this tax, this was a scientific poll"
Scientific my a$$. Real scientific to ask people "Without raising the current 6.5%)
A bunch of loaded questions designed to get the answers they wanted. Hardly scientific Mary Ann.
And also she said "we already made big cuts" Where exactly Mary Ann? Can you show us the numbers? You mean like the 1.5 million you said we cut in 2010 but really didn't? Or the 3% we SUPPOSEDLY cut in 2012? Boloney.
But she's still better than any of the real nimby's out there.
3:01 good post?
Chris Porter. What is the chambers position on this tax?
There is a new group in town of advocates who like to increase taxes of people. That is the most interesting thing to me. A club or group like Enviro's or Growther, now Taxers, or would they be titled Taxi's?
Well, we'll see what we' will see. The Taxi's certainly have experience, not to mention a large amount of hubris. They've organized in secret for quite some time with a council person or two, just like the Yessie's did with What's His Name, so the Taxi's feel they have a real edge on this.
The tone of the Taxi's comments are sweet enough i'd say, along the lines of, "Shhhh little children... resistance is futile... just go numb and enjoy."
Bray, your new group is simply another arm of the blended nobees and yessies that support this new council. They're organized, well-spoken, connected and involved. Voters will listen, they'll identify with these people, and they'll be persuaded. Add that to the advantage provided this measure by the senior exemption and the deck is definitely stacked. Most of these UUT modernization measures pass very easily. Found 6 similar measures on 2012-2013 ballots...5 passed easily.
With respect, does anyone know who it was that Ms. Nihart mentioned as having passed away? She mumbled something about dedicating their vote to that person or something like that. I just didn't catch the name and I don't think it came up again.
The thing is Todd that out of the yesies, nobies, enviro's, growthers and the nimby's, none like to pay more taxes.
Yes, and we all know we sometimes have to do things we don't want to do for the big picture, the greater good, or to prevent further decline. I think we're embarking on a long, expensive journey in Pacifica.
Please everyone needs tovote NO NO NO for everything. Enough is enough. these council are the being the victims. We are the bad citizens.
Karen needs to use more diplomatic terms. When she use handicap is very insulting to others. She is not good I am very disappointed I wish I didn't vote for her.
I always think about all the money these council members take home and keep wanted more. We need to have only 3 member not 5. This town is not big and we need to minimize expenses.
@5:23
The person MaryAnn referred to was Earl Annecston.
ANON 6:00 said "Yes, and we all know we sometimes have to do things we don't want to do for the big picture"
Good anon, I'm glad you agree that the unions in Pacifica need to bite the bullet for the greater good. If we pay this tax without any real wage reductions we will be right back where we started. Better to cut 100 people 5%, than 1000's of poor pacificans a thousand or more.
After you show some real wage and benefit reductions I will think about paying you more tax. Without that forget it.
The problem with pay cuts is they can't be sustained in the real world. In a year or two you're right back where you started. I suppose it could be a temporary fix, but I've seen nothing from this council that makes me think they will ever make that bold a cut.
@645
Thank you.
Sorry to hear Mr. Annecston is gone. A real Pacifica oldtimer.
Dear sweet innocent Rantanon/ProTaxanon @ 5:14 PM... I've also seen many measures pass that enslave humans, remove heabius corpus from the rule of law and deem companies, literally companies with shareholders, Boards of Directors and hundreds if not thousands of employees world wide to be deemed people, human people.
Taxi's, Taxi's, Taxi's YEAHHHHHH, Huh? Taxers, Taxerz, Taxi's or Taxzee? Hummmm.
That makes no sense anon 723. Don't make wage cuts because even if you do wages will climb anyway?
If you DON'T make them you'll be twice as F'd.
@806 In addition to being not something this council will do, the 5% wage cut most of us have posted about is a temporary, unsustainable solution to a very long term chronic situation. But by all means, cut away. Just don't think for a minute that you've solved the problem. Go to the people. Try a referendum. It's being used for pension reform in some cities. While we're dreaming, let's add on a 5 year wage freeze so we can actually make a difference.
@806 It's a temporary, unsustainable Band-Aid for what is going to be a very long term problem. It's also something I do not think this council or the next will have in its DNA. But while we're dreaming, let's add a 5 year wage freeze, get serious about shifting the cost of benefits to the employee, and get public safety employees on that 2 tier pension plan. That would make a difference. Council short on cohones? Go to the people. Make it a referendum. Other cities are doing that on public safety pensions.
We supposedly already have a wage freeze in place. Now we need to cut and we'll save $900,000
Dear Todd,
Exactly my point. Voters will pass almost anything if it "speaks" to them. This campaign promises to get right up close and personal with the voters, talking to them about their fears and quality of life like a neighbor and a friend. Very persuasive stuff.
Council and wage cuts? In all their rhetoric last night about the cuts that would be unavoidable without the UUT modernization revenue, not once did Council mention pay cuts. They talked about service cuts, job cuts, program cuts, longer 911 response times, etc., but no mention of cutting wages. Funny, because it would really help sell this tax to some. Should we assume it isn't something they would do? Based on past performance, I'd say so. Whatever they have cut, our payroll dollars remain virtually unchanged. Quite an achievement with a falling head count. How do they do it?
Why don't you big mouths who are sceaming salaries are too high and screaming for wage cuts bring down 10% and drop it off at city hall.
The mormons do it.
Pacifica should try this. Better then the 3 blind mice they have on council now.
DORSET, Minn. -
Supporters of the mayor in the tiny tourist town of Dorset can stuff the ballot box all they want as he seeks re-election. The mayor - a short guy - is known for his fondness of ice cream and fishing. And he's got the county's top law enforcement official in his pocket.
Say hello to Mayor Robert "Bobby" Tufts. He's 4 years old and not even in school yet.
Bobby was only 3 when he won election last year as mayor of Dorset (population 22 to 28, depending on whether the minister and his family are in town). Dorset, which bills itself as the Restaurant Capital of the World, has no formal city government.
Every year the town draws a name during its Taste of Dorset Festival, and the winner gets to be mayor. Anyone can vote as many times as they like - for $1 a vote - at any of the ballot boxes in stores around town. Bobby is running for a second term, and he gets to draw the winning name Aug. 4, so it's possible he could draw his own name.
Calls of "Mr. Mayor" greet Bobby as he strolls around Dorset, handing out his campaign card. One side shows Bobby, his dark hair slicked down, wearing his tan fishing vest over a suit jacket. The other side shows Bobby sitting in a porch swing with his girlfriend, Sophie.
"I would love to be your Mayor as much as I love Sophie," the card reads.
"He's been pretty good. Lotta PR for the town," said his mother, Emma Tufts, 34. "I think he's doing a fine job."
Bobby's job as mayor is to greet people as they come to Dorset, located among the pines and lakes of northern Minnesota about 150 miles northwest of Minneapolis. Resorts and tourism are the main industry, and restaurants ranging from Mexican to Italian to family style line about two blocks on either side of the highway that runs through the middle of town.
Bobby's major act as mayor so far has been to make ice cream the top of the food pyramid. He has many favorite flavors.
"Chocolate. And vanilla. Strawberry. Cotton candy kind. And rainbow sherbet," said the mayor.
On a recent steamy summer morning, Bobby skipped ahead as he led a group of about 20 children and adults on a walk on the Heartland Trail to raise money for Ronald McDonald House Charities of the Red River Valley in Fargo, N.D. He wore his signature black fedora, adorned with fishing lures and a large button with his photo, and seemed endlessly energetic.
"I think he's a cute little bugger and I think a lot of people share the same, you know, opinion as me, and it's neat," Hubbard County Sheriff Cory Aukes says. "You know, how often do you see a little kid like that who's - call `em camera-friendly or whatever, you know - he's got a very good little personality, and he's not afraid to show it. So I think it's great."
Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/22803007/minnesota-town-has-4-year-old-boy-as-mayor#ixzz2YeUtz5rq
Follow us: @myfoxdc on Twitter | myfoxdc on Facebook
Good observation 1020. None of them ever talk about wage reductions. Our biggest expense. Wages, the thing cities all over Ca ARE slashing by as much as 10%. The thing that has causes cities to go bankrupt all over the State.
Yeah that's not the problem.
Anyone hear Stone mention PERS increases as part of the long list of things this tax will go to fund? I'm thinking that PERS will be the largest recepient of the taxpayers largess.
Yeah please take my money to pay your pensions. Yes I only get $1000 a month from my union pension, but here take my money so you can get $6000 and double dip.
It's going to be about turn-out on election day. The architects of this measure are depending on a small, thoroughly brain-washed, cherry-picked turn-out... heavy with seniors, and friends of this and that in town. Easy to meet that simple majority threshold for victory.
Big turn-out? Tax measures usually fail.
I have never heard Karen Ervin speak as much at a council meeting as she did Monday night. My goodness! Stone and Nihart let her out of the bag at a real convenient time. What a show of solidarity! Poor things. They can't count on Mike and Sue...both are so unpredictable. It takes 3. Don't need to tell you that. Go with a sure thing.
That's a very cynical tactic then, to prey on the elderly and hope for a small turn out. Sort of a Fox News/ Southern Republican sort of campaign style.
At least we now know Nihart/Stone and a Ad Hoc committee have been meeting in secret for a year, $30,000 of public money was appropriated for a survey behind closed doors, and that this Republican like behavior was rewarded with $10,000 more to help campaign the elderly with fear.
I do know senior staff has discretionary spending freedom of at least $25,000 without council approval so i would be nice to know if Nihart/Stone asked staff to spend the funds for them.
I'm contacting seniors I know as of today to get feedback on the message that will be coming their way from these Republican style tactics. Can't wait to see the mailer and other prepared literature for this campaign.
Todd
You do that, stand out in front of Safeway and give them hell
Todd, politics is cynical because politicians are either cynics going in or they become cynics in office. Do you see that in the way our Council of 2 has handled this? If what you say about the possible use of staff's discretionary spending authority is correct, that would explain how these consultants were hired and paid below the radar. Buried in a check run?? Not on any agenda?That's, if you are correct.
The seniors will be engulfed by this campaign and persuaded by their exemption. Getting something for nothing is a powerful sales pitch. Might be better to focus on getting the turn-out way up so it isn't so easy to get that simple majority. I hate it when arrogant politicians make a farce of democracy. Pacifica's financial problems are real and challenging but they do not justify Council's short cuts...not the obvious ones taken or the ones we're speculating about.
The only difference between democrats and republicans is:
Republicans make money in the private sector then go into politics to make more money.
Democrats go into politics to make money.
All people have to do to make sure this doesn't pass is to loudly say the money's going to pay raises for city employees.
Most people aren't going to get worked up about $30K for consultants, or conspiracy theories involving two council members.
People who are not under Prop 13 taxes are in for a shock when they get the next tax bill. With property values going up very fast, this will increase tax bills up to 30%.
People will be screaming and even in a more foul mood about giving the government more money.
This tax will get voted down! Watch!
It's going to depend on the turn-out. In every city in which these UUT modernizations have passed, and 5 of the recent 6 have passed, the same argument about city salaries has been front and center. It wasn't enough to dilute the fear/quality of life campaign. Not even close. Accusations and speculation about dirty tricks by city councils and even city staff were also plentiful, and also failed to make a difference. The measure that failed was interesting. It involved lowering the overall rate but adding CATV and other video technology to increase overall revenue. Failed.
Apparently, you don't touch TV!
Those opposed to this measure will need to find like-minded types off the blog and get out the vote!
***Breaking News***
Just heard a rumor someone is poking around down at the quarry. No it is not an outlet mall developement company either.
Suspicious behavior is suspicious behavior. When it involves public officials and public funds spent to promote what is clearly their own agenda, it deserves scrutiny.
Trying to dismiss legitimate concerns with that 'conspiracy theory' label is not in the public's best interest.
302 they won't be seniors. pre-prop13 or already living in senior housing. just want to keep cops and EMTs handy.
better get those screamers out to vote!
http://pacifica.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/free-slurpee-day-goes-bigger_f2ed8b1c
Steve, you lost me, what conspiracy theories? Folks here are discussing various elements of this thing, even Taxi's, but what conspiracy theories are you referring to?
It's interesting to me to hear one or two folks talking about getting out the vote or where the $30,000 came from but neither is a conspiracy theory AFAICT.
Todd, people have been complaining about how Mary Ann and Len's sneakily laid the table for the tax measure - as if it was some kind of secret conspiracy. People were bitching because it wasn't done in public meetings.
It's unlikely I'll vote for the measure, but I never understood why people were so upset that Mary Ann and Len did some preliminary work on it before formally introducing it. I would expect them to do that.
You people don't understand. Back room under the table deals are cut every day.
Todd, is just trying to create a witch hunt.
What exactly was the back-room deal?
I'd like to know when they approved the expenditure for the phone poll? We hear/see consultants hired all the time. May have missed this one, but I think someone would have noticed the hiring of a consultant or pollster to test the waters for any kind of tax. Was it described as some other kind of poll?
Anon @ 5:44,
Senior staff has a discretionary spending cap of at least $25,000 without needing council approval. I have no doubt that is how the consultant was hired/paid and why it was never heard as an agenda item.
616 You have no doubt and I can't find it on an agenda during the last 6 months. Who directed that the hiring of this particular consultant be handled differently than other consultants hired by this city? Sub-committee of two?I'm surprised they didn't have the City Attorney hire this one. They surely saw how well that worked last time.
IDK, could they have a reason other than concealment and stealth? I'd love to hear it. Because it sure looks like they felt they had something to hide. Who's ok with that? Is this SOP for this type of consultant? Who issued them a license to fleece the public in secret and enabled by people we elect?
Somebody tell me this isn't what happened. Show me where the expenditure for Godbe was approved in public, openly and above board.
The UUT tax on cell phones may have passed in other cities, but have those other cities recently nailed their citizens with other large tax increases and fees. Yes we passed the school tax which was needed. But the sewer fee? Recology costs? Fees for services. People are fed up especially when they see how much waste and compensation is paid out.
Todd, 4:56 and 7:37 are examples of what I was talking about. Some people can't function in this world without a conspiracy theory to explain what's going on around them.
836 nothing unique about Pacifica's money problems. other cities have a lot of the same issues and have tried to solve them the same way with help from the taxpayers over and over again.
Mr. Sinai, Functioning just fine, and I still want to know where and when that expenditure was approved, and if it was under the radar, why and by whom? I think that's a legitimate question, and it's ok with me if you don't agree.
^^^
Crazy people always think they are sane.
Professor, that sounds vaguely autobiographical. Just take your meds, be a good boy, and don't fuss.
And 8:12 OTHER cities have made real wage cuts like Millbrae. Taxing struggling families to find pensions and high wages for city employees is regressive.
Lookie here. San Carlos can and Pacifica can not or does not want too.
And the hippies, noobees, nimby's and tree huggers are trying to stop something revenue producing.
Things would be so much easier if all these in the gang of no got there own state somewhere. Like maybe Arkansas.
Transit Village foes ready for ballot fight: Greater East San Carlos president plans for referendum
July 11, 2013, 05:00 AM By Michelle Durand Daily Journal
http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2013-07-11/transit-village-foes-ready-for-ballot-fight-greater-east-san-carlos-president-plans-for-referendum/1771571.html
San Bruno can, and Pacifica can not or does not want too.
http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2013-07-11/train-project-nears-end-despite-disturbance-san-bruno-residents-anxious-for-completed-caltrain-grade-separation/1771574.html
Millbrae also outsourced the police to the Sheriffs Dept.
Right after that all the riff raff and local malcontents were promply rounded up.
Right what Pacifica needs, a new sheriff in town to clean it up.
Our 8 million dollar police force can't even bust some tweaked out meth dealers.
What happened to the sheriff option? If the deal wasn't sweat enough than negotiate a better one. Funny it was good enough for Millbrae, San Carlos and HMB.
It's not that they can't. It is cause they don't want too.
Giving out petty tickets and hassling the kids is much easier police work.
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