NBC News, 12/15/12 Special Report with updates. text, video updates from Friday, 12/14/12. Police update, and scroll down to NBC Today for news videos.
| Nation grieves for 20 children, and 8 adults* |
... The school superintendent, Dr. Janet Robinson, said the body count would have been even higher if not for staff who rushed to protect their young charges. All of the dead were found in two rooms. "A lot of children are alive today because of actions the teachers took,” she said.
The high death toll and the tender age of the victims sent shock waves all the way to the White House, where the flag was lowered to half-staff. President Obama, his voice cracking at times, said he reacted to the tragedy first as a parent. “Our hearts are broken today,'' he said in a news conference Friday. “The majority of those who died today were children. Beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old.”
Related news- New York Daily News, 12/15/12. "Newtown, Connecticut shooting: Shandy Hook elementary school gunman Adam Lanza learned to shoot from his gun-collecting mom." "Mother Nancy
Lanza often took her kids target shooting, landscaper Dan Holmes said.
'That was a passion,' he said. 'The whole family would go together.' Her
20-year-old son Adam killed her with one of her own guns before using
them to murder 20 children at the elementary school where she once
worked." CNN, 12/15/12. "A community's quiet moment on a day of 'unthinkable' tragedy." "They packed the pews to remember, mourn and pray. What else can you do? "Peoples' children,
brothers and sisters were taken ... Peoples' spouses, those teachers and
administrators, were taken from us. Yet we stand in a church, and many
of us today, and in the coming days, will rely upon that which we have
been taught and that which we inherently believe -- that there is faith
for a reason, and that faith itself is God's gift to all of us," said
Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy. He spoke late Friday during a vigil at St. Rose of Lima Roman Catholic Church in Newtown." "... in what is now the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history." .... "The hearts and prayers of America are with you tonight...."
* Total adults dead include the gunman and his mother.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
90 comments:
I am pro gun but they need stricter laws concerning guns in or near the mentally ill.
The problem is NOT assault weapons, and in fact renewing the ban on assault weapons would not have prevented any of the recent attacks by crazy people. They all used handguns which would still be legal
That's right, the problem isn't the types of guns, the problem is crazy people being able to legally get them.
Never the less Diane Feinstein just announced she will try to renew the stupid assault weapon ban. Just another distraction by a politician with no understanding of firearms.
We need to have better mental health screening for people wanting to buy firearms. Also local police should be able to order a mental evaluation if they suspect a problem with a gun owner. Right now there is nothing police can do if neighbors or family reports a problem. Perhaps a new screening every 5 years for gun owners. And if firearms are in the same house of a mentally challenged person they must be kept from them and locked up. Police should be able to inspect house at anytime for guns being secured properly.
The longer we let politicians distract us with stupid laws the more people will die.
I can understand allowing guns for hunting purposes, but the assault weapons ban should be renewed immediately. Handguns should also be banned but the right-wing nutjobs would go crazy if anyone tried that, so we should at least see if we can renew the assault weapons ban for now.
@ Anon 11:23, You are never going to be able to ban hand guns. So either concentrate on what will actually help or just do what sounds better on a sound byte.
Again, renewing the assault weapons ban would not have stopped this or any of the other recent massacres of innocents.
So do we want to really get serious or do we want to do something that just sounds good?
I am so sick of people like Diane Feinstein (who I voted for) politicizing this deadly serious issue. Show some bravery and really take on the gun lobby. Enact tougher laws restricting all guns and keeping them away from crazies.
The liberal gun haters are trained to hate assault rifles even though they don't know what they are. They cringe at the mention of the name.
Any gun can kill people and this tragedy proves it.
The shooter of the kids in CT used an assault rifle that his mother owned. He killed her with her own assault rifle. He did not kill all those kids with handguns. If ownership of an assault rifle had been illegal, it may very well have prevented the killing of so many young children. And mental health screening for the mother who owned the assault rifle would have done nothing to keep the assault rifle out of the hands of her mentally ill son.
@1231 Exactly. Lock up the guns so the crazies don't get them? Hell, we can't even prevent little kids from finding guns in their homes and accidentally killing themselves or their playmates. And who decides who is crazy? The Brits reacted to the Dunblane, Scotland school massacre--eerily like the one in Newtown--by putting real teeth in their gun laws. It worked there and it can make a difference here, if we have the courage to do it. If we fail, if we are swayed by those that wrap themselves in the American flag or political pressure, then we can expect these sorts of abominations to become more frequent. How many 27 year old school teachers do we want to send out alone to face a monster armed with an assault rifle? Absolutely alone and standing between death and her class of 6 year olds. That's an image that stays with you. That's not my country. It cannot be my country. We must stop the slaughter.
The right-wing gun nuts are trained to love assault rifles even though they have no practical use in hunting or self protection. They get excited at the mention of the name.
Assault rifles are designed for the sole purpose of killing many people as fast as possible. They are instruments of warfare.
Cannons, missiles, and nuclear weapons are designed to kill people but reasonable people understand why it should be illegal to possess these weapons of warfare. It should be the same for assault rifles.
Mental problems, too many violent video games, social isolation--all of that may or may not have risen to the level where society could intervene and protect itself from this mass killer. The one unavoidable fact is that the guy, like other mass murderers before him, used an assault rifle to kill 26 innocent people. A weapon purchased legally by his own mother, whom he also slaughtered. It's become the weapon of choice.
"Enact tougher laws restricting all guns and keeping them away from crazies"
You don't make any sense. You just correctly pointed out that we won't ever be able to ban hand guns, so we might as well at least focus on assault weapons and weapons that carry ridiculously large ammo clips.
ANON said "we might as well at least focus on assault weapons and weapons that carry ridiculously large ammo clips."
Oh so only 20 people get killed? That makes no sense at all.
If most of these poor children were shot with hand guns, what will banning assault rifles do?
Hand guns are actually more deadly at close range than a rifle because they are easily aimed up close.
Absolutely nothing except make it look like the politicians are doing something.
A hand gun with a high capacity clip can kill just as well as an AK or an Uzi. It is not the type of gun, it's who has easy access to them.
Nothing we do will stop all the killings, but banning assault rifles won't stop any. If these people want to kill they're going to do it with any gun, a shotgun or a 22.
We need to profile the people not the gun.
Yes! Do something about these weapons of mass murder. They have no other purpose. I agree that the image of the young school teacher facing a killer with a military-grade firearm in a classroom of little kids is an obscenity. This is not Somalia. Is it?
"We need to profile the people not the gun." Profiling the owner of the assault rifle that was used to kill all those kids in CT would have done nothing to keep the weapon from the deranged son.
"I agree that the image of the young school teacher facing a killer with a military-grade firearm in a classroom of little kids is an obscenity."
Amen.
Let's make it impossible for that particular obscenity to ever happen again.
Yeah Hutch it does make sense. He killed the mother and all those kids with the assault rifle. Used one of the handguns on himself. That assault rifle is the handy semi-automatic version of the military M16 rifle. Weapons of war. No reason for civilians to have them other than killing people. Reduce the number in circulation, stop the sale of new ones thru new federal legislation, or these slaughters will become common. We cannot let that happen.
Hutch, why do people need assault weapons?
And I personally consider any semi-automatic or automatic gun, including handguns, to be an assault weapon.
As someone pointed out, almost all the killing WAS with the assault rifle. Also, the large clips are just as big of a problem, and I'd add to Steve's question why are those needed either? If the killer would have had to stop and reload, one of the heroes who tried to stop him would have had a much better chance.
Lot of common sense on here about these auto and semi-auto weapons. Military-grade weapons are for killing people, nothing else. Why does a civilian need an assault rifle? I grew up on ranches in Mexico and the Southwest in the
60's and 70's and in the US we knew we were on our own for at least 30 minutes after a call to the sheriff's dept, and in Mexico, you were better off not calling. Granted, that was a few years ago, but it's still accurate for many who aren't city dwellers. We never had anything more high-tech than shotguns, 22's and a few
30-06. Real healthy respect for the damage those could do. Of course, we weren't out to kill anyone, just defend ourselves and our property from the variety of trouble you can run into "living in the country". Assault weapons are for killers and their foolish mothers. No place for those weapons in American homes, streets, or schools. We need to stop kidding ourselves and stop this home-grown terrorism before this country deteriorates into something all of us should be very afraid of.
Yes you're right. At first reports were that he used the hand guns, now they are saying the Bushmaster .223 was used. This gun is sold as a "varmint" sporting rifle and they are used for hunting, target practice and home defense.
Does that answer your question Steve?
Again, the hand guns this creep was carrying would have been just as deadly.
So fine ban assault rifles again. But unless you take other steps like more stringent testing before people can buy a gun then you're not going to slow down these horrible killings.
"We need to have better mental health screening for people wanting to buy firearms." Hutch 8:34 AM
Here's one unregistered gun loophole that needs to be closed. "...some 40 percent of guns are purchased from unlicensed dealers. Felons, the mentally ill, people with restraining orders - all of these people can easily and legally buy guns, thanks to this loophole." SF Chronicle, 12/17/12.
Other civilized countries seem to be doing a better job with gun control. This country needs to try harder.
And thanks for relating your personal experience with guns when growing up in Mexico and the southwest United States, Anonymous 6:23 PM. Makes sense.
Generally, for those not living in the county, Steve (5:02 PM, 5:06 PM) makes a preliminary point: "... why do people need assault weapons?" And, for the most part, we don't. Quick reference, LA times, 7/23/12, gun ownership is down in the past 20 years.
the weapons where registered to his mother. he was turned down to buy a weapon for some reason a week ago.
"Yes you're right. At first reports were that he used the hand guns, now they are saying the Bushmaster .223 was used. This gun is sold as a "varmint" sporting rifle and they are used for hunting, target practice and home defense.
Does that answer your question Steve?"
Does this look like a "varmint" gun, Hutch?
What is a Bushmaster .223
You may be mistaking this for a .22, but it looks just like the GAUs we used in the military. And no, you didn't answer my question - why do people need assault weapons?
So it's sold as a "Varmint Pistol Sporting Rifle", well they could hardly call it a baby killer, but that is exactly what it is and always has been. Babies, teachers, you, me, our kids...gophers. One size kills all. Marketing is everything.
I agree that more stringent standards need to be applied before someone can buy a gun and no one should be able to buy an assault weapon of any type. Outlawing those is so obviously the place to start. However, from everything that's been released about the killer's mother and father, they would pass any kind of screening to buy weapons and the mother did acquire her guns legallly and did so in CT which has among the most stringent rules for gun ownership in the US. CT actually has a 'report your neighbor' law on the books that specifically addresses weapons and the home environment of the gun owners. I don't know how much farther the state can go than that to monitor guns once they are sold, but there's lots of room for improvement on controlling what can be sold. We're at a bloody crossroads in this country.
Never the less Diane Feinstein just announced she will try to renew the stupid assault weapon ban. Just another distraction by a politician with no understanding of firearms.
Every time a shooting happens this career politican Feinstein gets up and starts saying the same bullshit. Just what her base wants to hear. Ban guns. Ban weapons and ban assault weapons.
Being I am for banning assault weapons, I am against the politicans using a tragic shooting like this to grandstand.
Since you're in favor of the ban just how do you suggest it take place? A senator has to introduce the measure to start the legislative process. That's how it works. Feinstein is perhaps a little more touchy about guns than some because she had a front row seat to the Moscone and Milk assassinations in the late 70's. It can't happen soon enough.
Diane Feinstein has a better understanding of weapons and killers than most of us. She became mayor of SF as the result of George Moscone being gunned down by Dan White. I think she gets it.
People are pissed and they want something done. Assault weapons make a good target.
But vilifying a piece of metal is not going to help stop these terrible killings.
Handguns are used twice as often in mass shootings as assault rifles.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
And mot mass-killers obtained these guns legally.
So I would say it makes more sense to try and limit the access crazies have to all firearms then to have a knee jerk reaction that doesn't save lives because if they can't get an assault rifle there's plenty of other guns that are just as deadly.
I hear your frustration Hutch, but I'll take the knee jerk reaction on this one. When a psycho wants to kill a lot of people he reaches for an assault weapon. And I share Sinai's definition of an assault weapon. How many people have to be slaughtered before we take action?
I cannot get the image out of my head of that young teacher facing a monster with an assault rifle and protecting her 6 year olds or the principal who heard the shots and ran towards them to help. Maybe a ban isn't enough, maybe it is a kneejerk reaction, but how can we not try? How? I think you know we must try.
Well the gunman who shot Giffords, the Batman killer and the Newtown killer all used Glocks, Why is no one suggesting we ban them?
As said earlier, most mass killers used handguns to kill not assault rifles.
You people are obsessed with something that is not the problem just because it sounds bad.
Hutch, you act like there's some magic test that causes a buzzer to go off when a psycho walks by. I don't trust the government to determine who can and can't do things, so it's better to just ban the assault weapons. Maybe once the neanderthals grow up a little, we can ban handguns too.
Nothing's perfect Anon 525. But I'm sure we can do a much better job profiling potential gun buyers.
Yeah, I'm obsessed with "weapons of mass destruction" because it sounds bad. Let's change the name to ... oh, I dunno ... "flower power." That will fix it.
It's easy to identify assault weapons. How do you propose we identify lunatics?
6:16 SAID: It's easy to identify assault weapons.
Evidently not for Steve
"Well the gunman who shot Giffords, the Batman killer and the Newtown killer all used Glocks, Why is no one suggesting we ban them?"
Where did you get the impression people only wanted to ban assault rifles? I'd have no problem with banning or greatly limiting semi-automatic or automatic pistols.
If people feel they need protection, there's nothing wrong with using a .38 revolver or shotgun.
It's decision time. A line has been crossed with this one--not just for those of us who are sickened and outraged by the carnage and what it says about this country, but for the killers-in-waiting. And they are out there, even now. We either ban these weapons that are being used in these mass killings--and we all know which ones make the sickos' hearts flutter--or I think we will see this type of slaughter escalate. And any ban has to be just a first step of many in getting this domestic terror under control.
Well said 10:55
There was a guy on one of the CNN shows today who was a survivor of the Gabby Gifford's shooting in Tucson in 2010. He said that the barrage of 30 or so shots took about 30 seconds, max. Six people died, including a federal judge and a nine year old girl and 14 were wounded including Congresswoman Giffords who was shot point-blank in the head. Giffords resigned her congressional seat in 2011 to focus on her recovery. The weapon used by that deranged killer was a 9MM Glock semi-automatic with a 33 round magazine. When the shooter stopped to reload a woman in the crowd grabbed the new magazine and thus ended the that day's killing. Earlier in the day the killer had tried to buy ammo at a Walmart but the clerk refused to sell to him because of his "appearance and demeanor". These people are our very own home-grown terrorists and their weapons of choice must be banned.
Nothing says "you best be gone" quite like a shotgun. Don't even need to fire it. Unless you're expecting the Zombie Apocalypse, it ought to be enough.
anon 520 the Newtown killer used the Glock to kill himself after he used the assault rifle to execute 20 first graders and 6 teachers. Best use of a Glock I've ever heard of but they still should be banned.
Steve said "If people feel they need protection, there's nothing wrong with using a .38 revolver or shotgun."
40% of mass shootings were done with revolvers or shotguns Steve. Almost 70% were with semiauto hand guns. 35% with assault weapons.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map
You still don't make any sense, Hutch. Are you saying to ban them all then? I agree with that, but like we all know and you've already said, that ain't happening.
To not do anything because you can't do everything is idiotic. If we at least ban assault weapons and weapons that hold massive clips, we would greatly limit the carnage at these incidents. Once you design your magic loony detector we can incorporate that into the mix too.
As Obama said today, we must do a better job of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable. No single law or set of laws can prevent gun violence.
Right now there is plenty we can do from closing loopholes to better screening.
"40% of mass shootings were done with revolvers or shotguns Steve. Almost 70% were with semiauto hand guns. 35% with assault weapons."
You're misreading the chart, Hutch. It's not a percentage chart, since the numbers don't add up to 100%.
It would be more relevant to know how many people were killed in mass shootings (which Mother Jones defines as 4 or more killed in a single incident) by automatic or semi-automatic weapons vs. revolvers and shotguns.
Steve the chart adds to more than 100% because these killers used more than one type of gun.
I know you said you thought most guns are assault weapons. I respect you're wanting to ban most guns.
But it's not going to happen. So why not concentrate on better screening and more strict laws to close loopholes?
"I know you said you thought most guns are assault weapons."
I never said that, Hutch. I said I considered semi-automatic and automatic guns to be assault weapons. I don't categorize revolvers, shotguns or hunting rifles as assault weapons, but I suppose people could argue that if you don't have to manually load a bullet for each shot, they are.
Determining who is psychologically stable enough to own a gun is not practical. Banning all guns is not practical. I'm not for banning things like revolvers or shotguns, but trying to reduce the number of assault weapons and the size of their clips is realistic. It won't eliminate mass shootings, but by reducing accessibility, it ought to make it harder to carry out episodes like Columbine, Aurora, and Newtown.
I ask you again - why do people need assault weapons, i.e., automatic or semi-automatic weapons?
Psych screening? How's that work? For the whole household, friends, what? By all accounts and any standard in use today, the mother of the monster in Newtown would have passed a psych test. They were her guns, she had 6 and all were legally acquired. Same story with the Columbine killers. Reduce, ban, restrict these guns that the psychos reach for and we would be making real progress. This is home grown terror and as much a threat to our way of life as anything cooked up overseas.
Also, eliminating the gun show loophole is critical.
Steve, the term assault rifle was created to scare anti gun people. I had a Colt AR-15 years ago. I got it for home defense and I used to target shoot at the range in Sharp Park. I can't speak for everyone but I'm willing to bet 99.999% did not buy the gun to kill anyone. Other people I know use them to hunt small game. It is a sporting rifle. I agree that these large clips can make it easier to kill more people a little faster. Unfortunately the size of the clips didn't matter at Newtown because it took over an hour for police to arrive.
As far as people here saying we can't profile potential gun buyers any better, the answer is we can and we must.
Most anti-gun folks have no idea what the difference is between automatic, semi-automatic, full auto, revolver, pump action, bolt action, single action, large magazine. You should at least understand the differences before you oppose a gun deemed to be an assault weapon because of certain characteristics. I see the newspeople, politicians and anti gun people constantly showing their ignorance on this.
Hutch, an AR-15 is the same thing as the military M-16. The US military isn't going to send people into battle with squirrel guns.
I honestly don't know where you're coming with with these beliefs that the Bushmaster .223 and AR-15 are recreational rifles.
"You should at least understand the differences before you oppose a gun deemed to be an assault weapon because of certain characteristics."
If that was directed at me, I'd be happy to hear why you think I'm misinformed. I did spend four years in the military, where I carried handguns or automatic/semi-automatic rifles just about every day I was on duty. One of those years was spent working in the base armory. I surely must have learned something about guns.
"people I know use them to hunt small game"
Why do you need a large clip to hunt small game?
"Unfortunately the size of the clips didn't matter at Newtown because it took over an hour for police to arrive."
Unfortunately, the killer never needed to stop and reload when the now-dead heroes tried to stop him.
"people here saying we can't profile potential gun buyers any better, the answer is we can and we must"
You can click your heels together and chant "There's no place like home" all you want. Until there's a reliable mechanism to identify the psychos (and there currently is not), people who want to protect innocents should do what they can. This includes a ban on assault weapons and large clips, and eliminating gun show transactions without background checks.
Steve Sinai said...
Hutch, an AR-15 is the same thing as the military M-16. The US military isn't going to send people into battle with squirrel guns.
=================
Not True. An M-16 is full auto (machine gun) Steve, The AR-15 is Semi Auto or one bullet fired for each trigger pull. I'd say that's a big difference when it comes to killing. There are many other differences but that is the big one.
Hutch, as I said, I consider semi-automatic weapons to be assault weapons.
We were taught to never shoot our M-16s or GAUs on automatic, because you'd use up your ammunition in seconds, and it was very hard to aim while in automatic mode.
An M-16 in semi-automatic mode can still fire off a series of bullets with less than a second between each round.
Round goes to Sinai. Go Army!
Oh goody. Now Hutch is parroting the latest gun-lobby excuse for the deaths in Newtown...slow police response. That's really despicable and a lie, but you gotta go low, real low, when you try to shift the blame for an atrocity. The gun-lobby will reach new depths on this one.
You said they were the same Steve. They aren't.
And yes Anon 812, there are many more reliable ways to screen for potential psychos. Personality tests, interviews with a physiatrist, Open mental health records are just a few off the top of my head.
Anyway, all I've been saying is that we need a multi-pronged approach. Close loopholes, better background checks and stricter laws for ownership. Not to just ban assault rifles and think that will make a difference. So it actually looks like what most politicians are talking about.
Sinai, does it really matter if it was a .22 .308 .357 or 44 magnum?
http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-and-politics/2012/12/2-mass-shootings-connected-to-libor-2447738.html
I want to know why the news media is not talking about this part of the shooting also?
I just had to click on that URL to see what the nut job conspiracy theorists are cooking up. It did not disappoint.
"Personality tests, interviews with a physiatrist, Open mental health records"
Now you're just spouting off phrases that you don't understand. Does "open mental health records" mean that you want everyone's sensitive medical records displayed in the open?!!? Have you heard of HIPAA (and about 1000 other laws)?
Also, are you saying that every person who purchases a gun will need to be interviewed by a psychiatrist?!? I'd certainly go for that, but you're delusional if you think that's gonna fly with the tea-baggers.
I know you have a comprehension problem Anon 907, but of course I'm not saying to have peoples mental health records open to the public. Only to the psychiatrist reviewing your gun application. We are mandated to see doctors as a prerequisite for all sorts of things like driving a truck to obtaining insurance. I think it's worth $100 to have a psychiatrist look at your records.
Hutch, an AR-15 is a lot closer to an M-16 than the recreational rifle used for shooting gophers and cans that you're trying to make it out as. You seem to think that the only dangerous weapons are rifles on automatic mode. I would argue that in most cases, you can do more damage with an AR-15/M-16 in semi-automatic mode than an M-16 in automatic mode.
From Wikipedia - "The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 design to Colt. The select-fire AR-15 entered the US military system as the M16 rifle. Colt then marketed the Colt AR-15 as a semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle for civilian sales in 1963."
"Sinai, does it really matter if it was a .22 .308 .357 or 44 magnum?"
Yes. Some bullets are more damaging than others. That's like being asked if it matters to get hit in the head with a broomstick vs. a baseball bat.
My main concern is reducing the number of weapons that allow people to fire off lots of rounds in a short amount of time.
"I think it's worth $100 to have a psychiatrist look at your records."
It's unlikely a psychiatrist is only going to charge $100 for an evaluation, unless it's for show only.
Mental health issues are much to imprecise to be able to accurately determine who should be allowed to have a gun.
Steve you were already proven wrong when you said the M16 and AR15 are the same gun. They have different parts, and different functions as the M16 is full auto machine gun and the AR is a semi auto version sold to the public. If you get caught with even the parts from an M16 that make it full auto you are looking at ten years in federal prison. So yes again you were wrong, they are very different.
I'm wrong plenty of times and I admit it. No sense in discussing this with someone who doesn't.
Your absurd view that all semi-auto guns are assault weapons and should be banned is an extreme view that no serious politicians are even considering.
I would rather concentrate on things we can actually do to save lives, not an extreme ideology of banning most guns.
Hutch, do you consider an AR-15 with a 30-round clip to be an assault weapon?
How about a Glock with a 33-round clip?
If you don't, please tell me why.
"I would rather concentrate on things we can actually do"
Is that the magic loony detector?
"Is that the magic loony detector?" Anonymous 1:14 PM
And here's the better answer to that: "Anyway, all I've been saying is that we need a multi-pronged approach. Close loopholes, better background checks and stricter laws for ownership." Hutch 7:37 PM.
Guns are sold over the internet, in gun shows without even a background check. Imagine that! Its time to try to fix some of these loopholes. And the approach should be multilevel, or "multi-pronged" as Hutch suggests.
Here's a basic gun education link from the State of CA. Such good common sense and gun care could keep many people from being shot. And if there is no core test regulations and accountability for individuals who buy guns, why not? We no longer live in an undeveloped nation, and the time of the wild west has past.
The gun-lobby is counting on this debate getting bogged down in details, and definitions and exceptions--just like it has on here. Someone who can't or won't admit that a key element is to ban guns that can deliver a lot of rounds quickly, just that idea, is just not interested in saving lives. In the Old West it was leave your guns at the door or with the town marshall for security within. Disarm so that we can live more peacefully. The gun-lobby can't do that. For them it's better we should clutch our precious guns and move further down the road to barbarity. With Newtown we've turned a corner. It's going to be a long bloody road.
@114 I'm thinking that was the magic looney himself.
Did Hutch ever answer Steve's question @1241 re the AR-15 w/30 rounds and the Glock w/33 rounds being assault weapons? Or does no answer mean he agrees?
Just wondering.
My problem is. If you want a hunting license you have to go to a hunter safety course first. If you want to purchase a hand gun you go thru a waiting period and quick background check.
People its not the guns, its the nut cases who get them, that shouldn't who are the problem.
Have you ever seen an avid hunter shoot up a workplace or school? No.
Not true with the 40% of guns that are sold at gun shows, 7:42.
I am starting a petition. I am looking for peope to sign it. This petition would ask our President to stop selling Assault Weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels and to the now resurrected terrorist group Al Qaeda.
Also, I have another petition to end President Obama's Kill List. This would ask him to stop sending drones int areas where innocent children are. The last US Drone sent by Obama killed 168 women and children in Pakistan.
Ok, who will sign?
assault rifle is a pejorative term. The word is emotionally laden. But at the end of the day it's a metal tube through which bullets are shot.
In the hands of a law abiding citizen, of which there are millions, it's another rifle. In the hands of a mental ill person or a criminal, it's dangerous. But then so are cars and can openers.
In military hands, it's for assault.
So debate the real issue: wrong people get guns. Bad people are violent. I am not responsible for something that happened 4, 000 miles away. I am not responsible for anything that happens in Oakland (recent headline--- With Five Weeks Left in the Year, Oakland Homicide Count Hits 115 ) or San Jose (current count 44).
The dramatic weapon excesses of Arnold Schwarzenegger, Willis, or a Special Ops video before an adoring public have nothing to do with my behavior. Therefore, I do not want to be punished for the crimes of others.
"Your absurd view that all semi-auto guns are assault weapons and should be banned is an extreme view that no serious politicians are even considering."
I think he answered the question
NRA says the solution is more good guys with guns!
Did you know that there is a video game that teaches you how to kill children in school?
Some misinformation; Media has corrected first accounts of their reporting. The Sandy Hook Shooter Adam Lanza never used a assault rifle. It was left in his mothers car. He used hand guns.
Anon 9:09 - can't find that info in Google news search, please cite your source. All info I can find says he left a shotgun in the trunk but used the Bushmaster rifle to kill so many kids so fast.
posted today, 12-21-12:
"Adam Lanza brought three weapons inside Sandy Hook Elementary school on December 14 and left a fourth in his car, police said. Those weapons were a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle and two handguns -- a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm. In the car he left a shotgun, about which police have offered no details.
"The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military."
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/adam-lanza-weapons-glock-10-mm-handgun-bushmaster-ar-15-rifle-sig-sauer-9-mm-handgun-used#ixzz2Fi7gOhgT
NBC News Washington Reported this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de3lmAD5kXo
That youtube video shows a shotgun being retrieved from the trunk and the Medical Examiner saying that all the bodies that had been examined at the time were killed with a rifle.
Then there is this guy. He is slow to the annoying point, but his video and police recording is compelling. I, also, was listening to first account reports from the police and heard them say there is more than one shooter. This is for all the conspiracy theorists. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuhbCOqIaC4
@851 golly he answered it before Sianai asked it! that's amazing. now can he come up with the magic looney detector?
Okay kids hold onto your sno-cones, we're headed down the rabbit hole.
Mark Furlan killed Keith Coffey with a hammer. I don't blame Mark, I blame the Hammer. Hammers kill.
Communist Michael Moore's BodyGuard was arrested for having a UNRegistered Gun on his body.
I don't blame the gun, I blame the commie. You just can't trust them.
"Communist Michael Moore's BodyGuard was arrested.." Anonymous 9:53 AM
No Michael Moore is a Democrat. It would be helpful if you would get your information correct for a change. But you've got to try first.
Oh about the body guard, Fox News, 1/20/2005: "Police took Patrick Burke, who says Moore employs him, into custody after he declared he was carrying a firearm at a ticket counter. Burke is licensed to carry a firearm in Florida and California, but not in New York. Burke was taken to Queens central booking and could potentially be charged with a felony for the incident."
Hey this is a nothing story from Fox News, with no confirmation that charges were filed. The bodyguard probably had to buy a gun carry license, similar to the one he already had in two other states.
Whereas the "reality" you're citing is an 8 year old, unconfirmed rumor, followed by endless hysteria and claims of hypocrisy from far right wing blogs. Duh.
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