Pacifica Tribune Letters to the Editor, 12/4/12 "Thank you, City Council" by Lynn Adams
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| Goodbye friendly face |
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| Hello, heavy cloth, bacterial invested bags |
Having picked up tens of thousands of plastic bags each year and a hundred times in broken down plastic pieces, the Pacifica Beach Coalition is very excited for Earth Day 2013 when we will begin to witness first hand the environmental benefits of this ordinance.
Thank you Pacifica residents for your support of this ordinance. Without your will and support for the ban, our council would never have passed this!"
Related - City council meeting 12/10/12, item 13.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
39 comments:
This is the kind of nonsense I'd expect from Jim, Pete, Sue and Julie. Are they back? Pete didn't show for the meeting, Sue was there and this thing passed 4 to 0 with enthusiasm from the entire council. We could be in real trouble with this new council.
The unintended consequences of banning plastic bags. One might think a recycle public awareness campaign would be set up, like those for newspaper, cans and bottles No, they go for the grand gesture that will cause problems.
For starters, I really resent city council making me pay for paper bags eventually. Council is taking my money and forcing me to pay the grocery stores when I make a future purchase and do not have a reusable bag on me at all times. Council is pretty free with my money. My response will be to vote agst all future tax increases, thank you council.
I recycle. I actually don't need Ms Adams to nanny me. I recycle plastic bags back to Safeway. It's easy. I also recycle paper bags I don't use for other things. It is not my problem some people litter. So don't make my life difficult because of the litter bug. I bet the garbage people would take plastic bags back weekly just like batteries if asked. But no, Lynn Adams and the grand gesture.
I re-use plastic bags mainly to pick up dog poop. I assume Council will not make poop bags available at the dog park or the beach, ever. Therefore, I will leave the poop. Next time Ms Adams and her merry gang of trash collectors tours the beach, bring plastic bags, cause there will be poop to collect.
Just once, I wish City Council would do something to make peoples' lives easier, rather than coming up with endless, little ways to hassle Pacifica residents and Pacifica businesses.
Yeah, the nannies are in charge. Seeing a lot of similarities between nannies and nimbys. Let's see how that works out for us.
On a purely practical issue raised by anon@900...what is the official nanny disposal method for dog doo at the beach, dog park, trails, etc.? Cloth or paper? Empty tin cans? Hahaha, not a chance. Nannies, I'm leaving that problem in your hands.
A few things:
The county enacted this ordinance and it is anticipated that every city in the county will sign on.
The businesses are all for this because they no longer will have to give away plastic bags.
All coastal cities are required to gradually eliminate trash from our stormwater runoff, if we fail to meet the benchmarks we will be heavily fined. This ordinance is the most cost effective way of addressing this requirement.
I can tell you from experience that plastic grocery bags are the most pervasive trash in our stormwater. Just yesterday the beach coalition picked up a few hundred of them at the secret waterfall, and city worker collected even more just a few weeks ago.
Plastic bags are especially problematic because they clog stormdrains and our DPW has to expend a lot of resources cleaning them out to prevent flooding.
Plastic bags are almost never truly recycled, rather they must be "downcycled", meaning they must be made into something else, usually decking or benches. Those items cannot then be downcycled further.
This ordinance is a win-win for everyone involved, saving us all money in the long run while making our city and ocean healthier and more beautiful.
Swell, we can blame the county. That certainly explains the unanimous vote by council, but, really, for those of us who are less evolved, what about the dog doo question posed earlier?
Any official guidance or will picking up dog doo fall under the getting your hands dirty pledge taken by our environmental warriors?
Oh yes, businesses love this ordinance. Safeway can now charge me for paper bags. Thanks, enviros. Way to look out for your specie!
Ian, all supporters of the plastic bag ordinance are the nannies. All the witnesses to zillions of bags on the beach are--guess?-- the beach enviro gang. The same people who stampeded the county into adopting the county ordinance. To listen to you anyone would think the beach was knee deep in bags...The grocers I presume love it because the city will FORCE me to pay for paper bags that were free and then buy cloth bags I don't want. Paying for paper has nothing to do with banning plastic. Paper can be fully recycled. You forget to delve into the handicap of no poop bags for the sacred beach. None of the litter on the beach and your secret waterfall came from me and I am not inclined to be punished for it. I am opposed because I figure this ban to cost me $40-50 a year. Ain't a win-win for me or anyone else watching their budget, which I must say the city and you so cavalierly ignore, as usual..
C'mon Fido, to the beach!
Haha yeah, the beach is going to be knee deep in something and it ain't plastic bags!
Ian, as usual you say many things that aren't true or half true.
The County has no date or large fines for not implementing a plastic bag ban.
Our DPW does not have a big problem with plastic bags.
Most businesses are not for this ordinance and they do not make money on each bag.
Fences and decking made from plastic bags CAN be recycled.
This is not a win win for anyone.
The beach do gooders complain about plastic bags, but they say nothing about the sewage plant spilling 7.5 million gallons of raw sewage across the beach and into the water.
pot kettle black
That's cuz Sneaky Pete and Mitt Vreeland are their buddies.
"This is not a win win for anyone." Anonymous 7:54 AM
Ian (12/9, 6:55 PM) is correct according to city council findings as stated in the plastic bag ordinance. That ordinance text includes City Council findings, section 5.0501 (c), highlighted just for you in the article posted. Ian probably knows a whole lot more about what kind of trash harms the environment than than most of us, and he is vigilant to do what he can to clean-up that trash, are you?
Anonymous 7:54 AM, at least 3 statements you made are incorrect (wrong, or questionable) while hiding YOU were slamming Ian, who posted his good informational opinion, using his name.
I've heard there are single-use biodegradable (plastic like) bags being sold by such wholesaler stores as Costco, in some parts of the country. Maybe such bags will eventually present an alternative to plastic, the brown paper bags we know, or canvass. Hope so, the canvass bags work, but they're heavy, not always with you when you need them, and there are potential bacterial issues.
I won! I won! I get to pay 10 cents for each paper bag from April 2013 until January 1, 2015 when I get to pay 25 cents per paper bag. I won! I won!
All I want to know is what are we supposed to use to pick up dog poo
around town, the beach, etc.? Fido's gotta go. I think Council should address this topic specifically and in detail since they are the source. Of the ban, not the poo, of course.
The best way to dispose of dog waste is to compost it, which might seem gross but it's not as gross as putting it in a non-biodegradable bag and throwing it in a landfill. The pet stores sell biodegradable bags for a few cents each. I'm not sure if they can be put in the Recology recycling bins, maybe Chris Porter can fill us in on that.
But there is nothing keeping anyone from putting their waste in a regular plastic bag just like before, you just won't be getting your groceries in them anymore.
I have stopped using plastic bags for a few years now and it does take a little getting used to. Eventually you remember to put your reusable bags back in the car and bring them in the store, it's not really a big deal. I advise getting a couple of Chico Bags as well, they fold up small and fit in a pocket or purse.
Because of the work that the Beach Coalition does to clean up the beaches every weekend (over 100,000 pounds total so far), it's easy to assume that there isn't much of a problem, but as the Public Works saw recently, it is indeed a very big problem. Helen Nicely's excellent article in the Trib tells that story very well:
http://www.mercurynews.com/pacifica/ci_22037258/big-flush-kept-volunteers-busy-picking-up-beach
Just a question...Why has no one said a thing about the newspapers coming in one or two plastic bags a day? Remember when the newspaper man left it on your front porch when it was raining? Now they throw the papers out of cars and maybe get them in front of your house. This is a large segment of plastic bags. Anyone know the answer?
There will still be lots of plastic bags in our lives even after this ordinance goes through - even grocery stores will still use them for produce and meats. And of course every bag that you can presently purchase will still be available.
The present ordinance is similar to what hundreds of communities and countries have enacted all over the world, targeting the most pervasive and preventable problem.
Newspapers become useless when they get wet, so eliminating bags around them isn't that simple. And freedom of the press is an important right that municipalities are rightfully averse to limiting in any way.
The good news is that Tribune subscribers have at least one "free" plastic bag a week for whatever purpose they like!
Chris, can you tell us if dog waste in biodegradable bags can be put in the recycling bin?
Ian, since this is all so easy, please buy my bags and/or pick my dog's poop up and compost it. In your backyard preferably...
Why would you do that? It's a reasonable question, and would be helpful for your customers to know the answer.
Anonymous said...
"Therefore, I will leave the poop."
Quite likely that you are one of the 25% of dog owners in this town that never pick up after their dogs.
And now you have a lame excuse to blame the beach coalition rather than take responsibility for your selfish actions.
Thanks for ruining the beach for responsible dog owners.
Most of us responsible dog owners
reuse the plastic bags we get our groceries in. Right size, constant supply, free with purchase. It's convenient, and let's be real, that is one of the reasons people are likely to be responsible about picking up their dog's poo. Make the bags less plentiful or add the slightest cost and many people will be less responsible...all over town. Bet on it.
FYI the Recology website says animal and human waste goes in the gray can. All those white plastic bags from Safeway have come in handy. They really don't pay the garbage guys enough.
I don't want to compost dogcrap in my back yard or have my neighbor doing that next door. I don't litter, I cleanup after my dog and others, I recycle, I conserve, but I really resent this heavy-handed enviro stuff. Not everyone wants or needs to become an eco-warrior. This will backfire badly.
Maybe the Beach Coalition will fund dog bags at all Pacifica beaches and keep dispensers loaded daily. Certainly city council will not have the foresight to do this. No dog bags at the city dog park.
As to a charge for paper bags--if we recycle, can we get the cost per bag refunded like cans? Or is this a hidden tax to benefit the groceries??
I respect Ian and all the work he does in regards to environmental causes but I have to agree with Anon 754 that he may have stretched the truth a little on some of his talking points.
Ian said "county enacted this ordinance" but they enacted no such ordinance specifically related to plastic bags.
Ian said "DPW has a big problem with plastic bags" but there is no proof of this.
He says "businesses are all for this". Well then why didn't they do this on their own? Any proof?
I can go on...
And YOU may have "stretched the truth a little on some of YOUR talking points." Using your commentary Anonymous 7:38 AM
Seriously, read the plastic bag ordinance link posted here yesterday. The ordinance came from the urging of San Mateo County, following their environmental review. Want more "proof"? A quick google search brings-up the following 10/24/12 Mercury News article.
Businesses are for the new ordinance? Maybe, maybe not. No official citywide survey has been made. But, that is Ian's view and/or experience. Ultimately it doesn't matter.
The movement toward a plastic bag ordinance in San Mateo County has been in process for more than 1 year (maybe even 2-3 years). With the San Mateo County ordinance, now with most San Mateo County cities seem to be complying).
Sorry this single-use plastic bag ban seems to be a shock to you, but this issue has been out there for a while (at city council, in the news, and several articles posted on this blog and others), so where have you been?
PS: It occurs to me, you may be Anonymous 12/10/12, 7:54 AM. Thus, its consistent that you might agree with yourself.
Ian, I did not post that comment under my name. No dog poop in recycling or compost carts.
Thanks Chris, I am relieved to know that you didn't write the offending post. That means that someone willfully impersonated you which is a serious offense.
Back on topic, here is a place to learn about composting dog waste:
http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/composting-pet-waste.html
Let me remind everyone that this is entirely optional, bot for those inclined to try it out, it really is the most environmentally friendly way to dispose of dog waste.
unfriendly dog poop=grey cart
You know the service that will help bring your purchases to your car, will def come in handy. I never used the service before, now I will.
You idiots. My teachers pension invested in the corporation who invested in the company in China who makes zillions of the plastic bags for all Americans to use. Now, those chinese workers will lose their jobs along with the company's community will lose, along with the investors. Big Win- for wacko enviros. Big Loss-for Lynn Adams , who will have to suffer through picking up human shit, cause that ain't no dog shit.
you people hate dogs
There was a question about my assertion that businesses are behind this ordinance. The California Grocers Association is officially in support, as can be read in this article:
http://paloalto.patch.com/articles/san-mateo-county-could-approve-countywide-plastic-bag-ban-model-this-week
Also, Vasu, the owner of Oceana Market, and Joe, owner of Pacifica's Farmer's Market both have expresses support for the ban. Joe said that he spends about $4,000 a year on plastic bags, and Vasu spends a lot more than that.
This ordinance will make it easier for grocers to stay open during difficult economic times.
Most businesses aren't run by bll and joe... What does Safeway, who runs 95% of our groceries think?
uh, Safeway is probably figuring out how much they can save on plastic bags and how much they can make from charging for paper or selling more of those germy cloth bags. They'll be charging a minimum of 25 cents per paper bag after 1/1/2015. People, the only green that Safeway supports is the green in your wallet which they will take more of thanks to their new enviro partners.
So the grocers save on plastic bags. Prices will go down, yes?You mean these grocers, big and small, aren't going to immediately pass their savings on to their customers? I'm shocked.
This is really starting to look like some kind of unholy alliance between grocery stores and enviros. And stupid Pacifica is right there. Guess who gets the bill? If I could find a way to do all my grocery shopping at Costco, I would. No bags just boxes. Pacifica wouldn't get a dime from it. Recology still takes sliced up cardboard, right?
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