Speaking of the redevelopment "good old days", in the process of looking for a current quarry picture I came across this historical Rockaway Beach quarry photograph with caption text, but no article, date unknown.
Maybe remember this picture when NIMBYS talk about the quarry being "pristine land". By definition a quarry is not "pristine land". This quarry includes limestone, greenstone and dumped highway construction junk dirt. 25 years of lost city redevelopment revenue, lost jobs, lost services, and finally lost redevelopment benefit pending. Excuses from city council to reject quarry development for city economic benefit have long since run-out.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
39 comments:
Kathy,
How bout the hippies saying it was an ancient Indian Burial Grounds also??
"...it was an ancient Indian Burial Grounds..."
Jim, that sounds pretty hippie to me. There doesn't seem to be significant evidence of burial markers in the quarry/Calera Creek area, at least not found in the Calera Creek highway DEIR (admittedly which I have not read). Costanoan/Ohlone tribes or nations apparently lived all over the bay area and further south as far as Monterey and San Juan Bautista.
Wikipedia indicates "There are no known prehistoric remains in Rockaway Beach itself; however, the site of the Ohlone Native American village site of Timigtac[1] is located about a half mile away on Calera Creek, immediately to the east of Rockaway Beach by State Route 1."
Our Pacifica Historical Society has posted Native American Period web information. Under The Costanoan (Ohlone)Indian Tribe, see "Life Cycle": "A corpse was buried or cremated on the day of death." Cremation apparently was the preferred method of disposing of the body, "if wood could be gathered" according to the documentation. Ohlones also seem to believe in reincarnation.
Wiki is also set up so anyone can make changes to the topic, pretty much.
Maybe an old hippie was buried there many years ago?
It's an Ohlone hippie conspiracy.
Don't know about the quarry area but there are those claiming to be of local indian decent who have made claims about the golf course area. They showed up at both SF city hall meetings and the meeting Julie Lancelle put together with Karen Swaim and Tetra Tech.
"...local Indian decent who have made claims about the golf course area."
Sharon (712), claims of Costanoan/Ohlone Native American Indian Tribe descendants could occur ANYWHERE in Northern to Mid California lands, but what legal, financial, designated reservation or other implications are there other than a certain amount of respect for Native people?
Probably these Sharp Park Golf Course protestors were the same few people who laid claim to the Quarry on behalf of their ancestors during Measure L, or at Highway 1 improvement meetings. Interesting how they don't show up to claim GGNRA property, Sanchez Art Center, Vallemar, or the beach. So, this selective convenience of ancestor burial lands sounds more like another old NIMBY trick.
I don't think anyone ever said there was an Indian burial ground in the quarry. But there are 2 documented archaeological sites there. It's not "another old NIMBY trick." See the August 2011 Calera Parkway draft environmental impact report. The 2 sites are recorded as CA-SMa-162 and CA-SMa-238.
Yes, both sites were noted and cataloged as part of the "new" WWTP project. The quarry had been in use by the native population, the Spanish in making lime wash and of course, the Americans who settled San Francisco. Its not a pretty, undisturbed piece of property. It needs to be reclaimed and if in reclaiming it, it gets developed into something to bring much needed commercial revenue, so much the better for Pacifica.
Anon (257) the Calera Parkway 287 page DEIR report you referenced but did not link is here.
The not significant CA-SMa-162 and CA-SMa-238 archaeological sites you referenced are located at the bottom of page 92, and the discussion about historical relevance continues to the middle of page 94. These archaeological sites will not be listed on the National Register of Historic Places (NRHP), but will be eligible for the California and local listings.
The Project Assessment (10 pages) is located here for those interested. The Government file is located here
There were verbal claims "spin" from Eileen Carey (her ancestors), and other NIMBYS about Ohlone burial grounds in the quarry around the time of Measure L.
Some of us have been dealing with a decade or more of "old NIMBY tricks", so I think we do recognize most of these. For example, you changed the conversation focus from the Rockaway quarry to Calera Parkway DEIR specific, and added 2 detailed site code findings. You gave no link, no page reference (out of 287 pages). And from that is the appearance of importance, whereas these archaeological sites are deemed "not significant" (and not qualified for a national listing but will be listed in CA and locally.
You can try to spin by downplaying the importance of these documented archaeological sites, but you can't spin away the facts of their existence which refute your comment about "another old NIMBY trick."
"...downplaying the importance of these documented archaeological sites..."
Anon (1022) guess you missed my reply to Sharon (above): "...claims of Costanoan/Ohlone Native American Indian Tribe descendants could occur ANYWHERE in Northern to Mid California lands..."
Again, you're mixing-up information with myth, a common old NIMBY trick. But do tell us about the importance of these archaeological site findings, described as "not significant" in the Calera Creek Parkway DEIR.
I say we let them call it Indian ground, then build a multi-million dollar casino and hotel complex. Let the Indians develop their soverign land. Bet it would look like what Peebles had envioned only no one could say squat about what they build in their "nation".
That would create traffic, and you would pave the quarry and make it look like Daly City.
Chief, yes we could. A tribal casino development proposed several years ago in Mendocino County was reviewed by the Coastal Commission and one of the conditions of approval was to find an alternative sight. The commission staff had identified an area in the Mojave desert as ideal for the casino and denied the projects coastal location as part of the Coastal Development Permit. Sovereign or not the coast is the coast.
The importance of the sites was never the issue, the fact of their existence was. Changing the topic to side issues that are not the focus of the discussion is a rhetorical device that could be called a "trick." So could labeling facts as "old NIMBY tricks." But the lowest trick is plain old name-calling.
I have never seen anyone blowing around like a feather in the wind..
I am for it, I am against it
look at me look at me
"Old NIMBY tricks" are a 30 year reality in Pacifica, not fiction, fact. Nothing low or name-calling about that. And, interesting how there is no objection to the acronym "NIMBY" (from your view, guess we got that one right).
Finding the specific CA-SMa-162 and CA-SMa-238 clue without clarification, link or meaning was a bit of an "Easter egg hunt". If you had the detail, you also had the reference link and understanding of the issue, but did not include it. So that looks like obfuscation, if not why would you not include this basic context to your comment?
We all share common interest this city, most of us know the ancient Ohlone people were here, and some markers were expected in the Calera Creek Parkway DEIR. This archeological find never was a "big deal" except as it would become part of the "cannot do" scenario against the best interest of this city.
But, sharing information is good. Some things we will agree on, and there is the potential for new ideas, new thinking, and compromise (or not, probably not but maybe).
If Eileen Carey says the quarry is the burial ground of her ancestors, we should give it to her.
The Trammell Crow EIR says it is as should the widening EIR. During excavation of the new WWTP lots of human remains were uncovered, in a circle no less. An Ohlone elder was brought in to bless the unearthed remains and ok the WWTP construction moving forward.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
show proof Bray..post the documents
go to the planning department and ask to see the quarry file. it is all there.
if you don't do all the work to post the documents and I have to go look it up myself, then it's not a fact, it's an "obfuscation" according to Kathy Meeh.
Lazy is as lazy does. If you really had an interest beyond moaning you would have been studying this stuff for yourself already.
Anon (419), your comment is surely twisted. When you present specific, detailed information such as items CA-SMa-162 and CA-SMa-238, then a comment description and reference link to these would be expected-- rather than camouflage aka: "obfuscation".
Todd (646), (FMV) this is not an issue of "lazy" readership, its an issue of a "lazy comment" possibly for an unreliable purpose. And, most of us are ordinary citizens who prefer to see progress in our city, but have "day jobs" and also little interest in interrupting the function of city employees. Although about your (114) Native American comment, I tend to agree: go look it up if interested. The best part of that recall from you (IMO) was the blessing that allowed the WWTP to move forward.
show documents post them here
show up or go home
don't bother posting documents. it won't make any difference.
I know it wouldn't make a difference, but these things exist and if folks have a real interest they will find them easily.
"Bigfoot exists. There's plenty of proof, and you only need to go out and find it."
That's likely not a very convincing argument.
Didn't someone comment at the Planning Commission this past week that according to an admission by Timothy Tosta, Peebles attorney, you can't really build on the quarry at all?
The US Constitution guarantees the right of free speech. But you won't believe it unless I post the document. And you won't look it up yourself. You just want to whine.
I don't think its an really issue of the city council rejecting quarry development. I think it's a combination of the fact that most Pacificans don't want to see it developed and no developer in his right mind would ever build something there.
Houses won't work
Strip mall won't work
"City Center" won't work
Look at it this way, if Peebles couldn't make it happen, who could?
"The US Constitution guarantees the right of free speech. But you won't believe it unless I post the document. And you won't look it up yourself. You just want to whine."
Lame argument. Nobody disputes the right to free speech. On the other hand, people do dispute Bigfoot and Todd's claims.
Lame argument to compare Bigfoot proof to Trammell Crow EIR.
Anonymous (224) with no name to confirm your intentions, I think your comment is a pure anti-development propaganda, if you know anything about what happens in this city. City council majority did not support growth during their 8 year tenure, which is the reason this city is beyond broke.
Quarry development? Vreeland, Digre, DeJarnatt and Lancelle did not support Measure L in 2006, nor did they support Measure E in 2002. Cal Hinton on city council at that time did act in the best interest of this city by supporting quarry development, both in 2002 and 2006.
Anon (130), I attended the same Peebles Quarry meeting that Todd attended, and to my knowledge Tim Tosta (land attorney) described historical findings at the quarry which would be given to the historical society, advised the geological and ecological findings, and indicated that the State required land resurfacing. At that time, development with or without housing was hopeful. And there was no recommendation from Tim Tosta of "no project". What Todd is talking about is unknown to me. Maybe you will explain that comment further, Todd.
Kathy Mehahahaha you & all your other racist jerks keep refering to Ohlone Nation of People in such a degrading way. SHAME on you; why don't we Native Nation Human Beings ask you ; can we please dig up your & all the other PRO development selfish people"s Grandparents or other relatives so WE can put a mall over their graves? Do you feel that is fair? YOU are ALL so selfish & ignorant it is just sad. This is 2011 your kind of backwords thinking is EXACTLY why the enviorment is such a mess. People like you would LEAVE NOTHING OF TRUE BEAUTY. Thank goodnes for hippie tree huggers like John Muir otherwise we would not EVEN have places like Muir Woods to name just one of the MOST beautiful places in the world.. YES before the murderous types like Columbus came; there had been hundreds of thousands of First Nation Human Beings; this land BELONGS TO NO ONE; we are only here to care for that which gives us life! You are just narrow minded idiots & i personaly am sick of being polite (LOL the root meaning of politics) to creeps like you.
my name is pixeee tree hugger Indjn you better walk to the other side of me because i may just call you what you really are next time i see you ; and you are so out of shape you will not be able to run away when i point you out to all MY RELATIONS. WE are SICK of types as yourself that flaunt your garbage wherever you think you can. The time has come; you & others like you just destroy so you can use you addicted lame insecurity to purchase all that you do not really need, you are pathetic scum swimming in your ego of slime. You & your type are THE reason everything is falling apart. YOU ARE THE DECADENT babies of the roman empire. You will never evolve ; you are stuck and feeble. When the future comes it will be for the strong not the weak like yourselves.
No commenting while under the influence, please.
Anon 649, Does this mean you're not coming for Thanksgiving Dinner?
Seriously Anon (11/23/11, 6:49pm), Happy Thanksgiving, a good day to enjoy blessings of the look-back old and forward evolving new culture. Many people get stressed during the holiday season.
We are all "human beings", we come from the same source material. We learn, achieve, work at improving our personhood, or not, eventually we pass-on. Cultural mores and folkways vary.
Today we live in THIS culture, a city in the metropolitan Bay Area. The level of evolved sophistication and expense is difficult for many to cope with. However, you (similar to the rest of us) probably live in a house, eat food, cloth yourself, enjoy the benefit of heat and water, shop, see physicians, and drive a car-- thereby in exchange pay in cash all the bills related. Its difficult to assess how different your life really is from those you refer to as "decadent".
By governing law, the quarry is private property, just as is the private (paid for) property where you live. With 60% of city land ascribed to "open space", given the location, long overdue, this city needs to develop that land for its/our financial survival, as well as for the commercial benefit of the community.
As for the archaeological burial ground studies and findings in the quarry and highway 1 improvement areas-- remember, cremation was the preferred Ohlone/Costanoan Native Americans disposal of remains. Thus, with cremation and ground conditions, bone findings were substantially deteriorated. These Native American people apparently believed in reincarnation-- the spirit moves on, so should you, try to find peace.
Oh, if only we could time travel at will or otherwise.
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