Tuesday, April 25, 2017

Nextdoor claims privacy on public comments, kicks out offender


If you are having problems with Nextdoor dumping your comments, or even dumping YOU, let us know!  The following is my recent response email to the Nextdoor lead, and their email. The suspension/termination of my account came with links to their previously undisclosed (to my knowledge) "privacy" and "membership" rules.  Their email titled "your email account" was hardly noticed, until no more community emails came from them. (Kathy Meeh)

Image result for red legged frog picture
Are NIMBIES eating our public Nextdoor forum?
Response email to Nextdoor.  "Needless to say, the action Nextdoor chose to take was from the termination line, rather than the emailed help line above.  There is a difference.
My prior understanding of the Nextdoor email function was that Nextdoor is a Citywide sponsored email for the community:  a public forum, with similar public "free speech" characteristics and standards the City would adhere to.
Signing-up to participate with Nextdoor dialog a few years ago, I don't recall a long list of not easily or clearly understood privacy and member agreement requirements. Do you? 
And BTW, of these privacy/member clauses, where is the exact reference, which has caused this "egregious" Nextdoor community termination?

Copyright standards and crediting sources were included in my Fix Pacifica article consideration.  Direct:  http://fixpacifica.blogspot.com/2017/04/city-infrastructure-wisdom-bonehead.html  or General:  http://fixpacifica.blogspot.com/.
As noted:  The conversation about rent control and affordable housing began on the biased Nextdoor/Sam Casillas article, which gave Realtors (the Realtor Association) a "bad rap" (and that smacks of scapegoating without solution from the NIMBY crowd). 
Doesn't the the unfair nature of that Nextdoor article itself bother you a little?  I think it should.

Image result for You're fired or terminated picture
Pro Economy Nextdoor game:  bye, bye, you're out.
The Fix Pacifica article
1.  Steve Sinai's Nextdoor comment: Steve is my friend and Blogmaster of Fix Pacifica blog (where we post a majority of articles).  Posting Steve's comment was intended as a  fun surprise, rather than a  breach of what is in reality viewable Citywide privacy.
2.  Dorothy Bouly Bolton's comment was a direct City researched rent control data quote, so how private is that? 
3.  Mike Hicks astute "need for affordable housing" comment is fact, and it's doubtful he objected.
4.  Helen Risinger, complaint of passing cost to landlords, doubt she objected.

I think the action taken by Nextdoor to dump me (and likely many others), lacks sufficient cause and should be reviewed. 
Also FYI, lately I'm hearing complaints about Nextdoor, that Nextdoor is not being fair.  There is the dumping of factual comments (just as one of my comprehensive comments was dumped a few months ago).  And there also seems to be the dumping of participants who do not support and adhere to the pro-NIMBY (nothing for Pacifica) bias. 
Over decades, hasn't this City had enough damage done to the viability of it's infrastructure?  Has Nextdoor recently been absorbed by those who pretend, "nothing happening here"?  I'm beginning to think so. A response and reinstatement is expected."  Kathy (Kathleen Meeh)
-------------------- 

Reference. The Nextdoor/"Helpline" email, 4/21/17. The "suspension/termination" email was signed cordially with "Best", (an alternative to "regards" or "love" I suppose); and, we'll call this fearless Nextdoor lead: "Anonymous". "I’m reaching out to you today because it was brought to our attention that you posted Nextdoor content authored by Nextdoor members onto your blog without their consent. This violates Nextdoor’s Privacy Policy and your Member Agreement. Due to this violation, your account has been suspended. If you remove the Nextdoor content from your blog and agree to respect the Privacy Policy and Member Agreement, then we can discuss the recovery of your account access."  Hum, I don't recall seeing these Nextdoor Privacy Policy and Member Agreements prior, do you?  But it might not matter anyhow, if our local Nextdoor has now been taken over and is being controlled by NIMBIES.  The Fix Pacifica article in question, (comments from Nextdoor), 4/18/17, "City infrastructure wisdom: bonehead economics 1." (This article is also linked above, and no, Nextdoor, I won't be taking it down).    

Note photographs. Red legged walking frog by Elisa P. from Strange by Nature Deviant Art. Stick man from  Culik Law PC/Shawna Culik, 2/21/14, "What to Do if You Are Wrongfully Terminated..."  

Posted by Kathy Meeh

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wait who got thrown off Nextdoor?

Kathy Meeh (Nextdoor going to the frogs) said...

951, yep I got thrown off Nextdoor, with the possible consideration offer: take down the Econ 1 article posted on Fix, 4/18/17. My response to the alternative is, "No way!"
But, apparently, according to Nextdoor, public comments on a City sponsored website are "private".
Of course, public City and County announcements on Nextdoor are also blocked from me and others who are dumped off our local Nextdoor email that serves this City. Democracy at work, really? Really???

Oh, did you ever see, or read and understand, the Nextdoor "privacy" and "Member Agreement" that doesn't follow as a disclaimer on articles posted there? Nope, guess not because these don't exist.
But, fortunately those two links were sent to me along with the local Nextdoor "drop dead" email notice discovery. (Of the two links, the most fun is the fuzzy "Member Agreement".)
Currently, considering the articles and attitudes often allowed and published on our local Nextdoor (now your Nextdoor not mine), I wonder if such "rules" (and certain technical disqualification void of real, up front disclosure) are more based upon a social/civic/political bias.
What do you think? As mentioned, recently I hear other members of the public are complaining about Nextdoor too. The next step may be to tattle to the City, or at least seek further clarification of the local Nextdoor organization.

Anonymous said...

Thanks alot Kathy. I flew to Vegas and put down money Sinai would get thrown off before you!

Anonymous said...

Huh? Nextdoor is not a city sponsored email. It's a private for-profit company that has no relationship wiith the city of Pacifica.

Captain Duh said...

Cry me a river, Kathy. This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

You took peoples' comments made on someone else's website and posted it on Fix Pacifica without getting their permission first. Big no-no. That's not only a violation of the Next Door TOS, it's a violation of copyright. Just because something is posted on the internet doesn't mean you're free to steal it for your own site.



Steve Sinai said...

I'm sure a lot of NIMBYS over there are trying to get me kicked off.

Anonymous said...

Nextdoor is a private company, not a public entity. Any comments posted there are owned by Nextdoor. Copying comments from Nextdoor and posting them elsewhere is a copyright violation. It's theft, just like copying any other written material owned by another company or individual and posting it on the internet.

Kathy Meeh (Nextdoor is going to the frogs) said...

Big no-no 449, you're saying Nextdoor is a CITYWIDE participation PRIVATE email? Yes, "Citywide private email" is an impossible concept to "grasp".

Our City initially introduced Nextdoor; currently posts press releases, urgent, safety alerts, and other timely information. That "concept" could be considered a "relationship".
Excluding some members of the community from such City and County government information could also be considered discriminatory, abusive, even a safety hazard.

447, you say Nextdoor is a "for-profit" company, how does it make it's profit on free stuff, lost pets and blather?
If it sells it's list, wouldn't the Yellow Pages be more efficient?

No-no 449, does "Next Door TOS" mean toads over sauerkraut? What is your reference, and while you're at it drag-out and link the copyright context you're you're referring to.

Meantime, Steve's comparison of Economics vs. NIMBYnomics on the Bonehead economics article belongs here on Fixing Pacifica for all to appreciate: it's perfect!
(Also, the related Dorothy Bolton City rent control quote is "free"-- it's City information.)

Steve Sinai said...

Articles and comments posted on Nextdoor are owned by the people who wrote them, and not by Nextdoor. By submitting the articles and comments to Nextdoor, the authors are giving Nextdoor the right to display those articles and comments. It doesn't mean those writings become public domain.

From what I've been able to figure out, you can take snippets off of other websites if you're commenting about them, or display links to other websites, but you're not supposed to copy whole articles or comments without permission from the people who originally wrote them.

I'm guessing someone reported that Kathy reposted my comment from Nextdoor in full, and even though I'm fine with her having done that, Nextdoor didn't know that. It was enough to get them to terminate her account.

Anonymous said...

If you don't know how Next Door operates, it's because you don't want to know. Links to everything Kathy can't seem to find are on the bottom of every page. Contributors retain ownership of their posts, but grant Next Door a license to use the content. Like almost every website in the history of the internet.

Here's the important part:
Don’t share your neighbors’ information or non-public Content without their permission.
It’s important to Nextdoor that neighbors should be able to communicate privately amongst themselves; that’s why we restrict who can access your neighborhood.
If you take information or Content shared by one member to another member and share it outside the neighborhood(s) without their permission, you are violating your neighbors' expectations; that behavior is a serious breach of trust.


It's a PRIVATE website run by a PRIVATE company and the city just happens to us this PRIVATE site to post stuff on it.

Kathy violated their terms of service and got kicked off. She's had trouble grasping the concept that you can't just take someones posts (say...a letter to the editor in the Tribune) and put it on Fix Pacifica without their permission. Now she's found out that there are consequences to this behavior. No tears here.

Kathy Meeh (Nextdoor is going to the frogs) said...

Last time I checked, you can take a copyright portion of newspaper articles (logically extended to websites), including opinion (letters to the editor), and reprint these.
Somehow, from limited experience posting recent comments on Nextdoor, I thought Nextdoor was more an open forum, and "private" referred to individual participant email links (which I have occasionally used to communicate privately, as have others).
The Nextdoor article in question wasn't worth reprinting FMV), and was posted in GENERAL (I think), which included the entire City-- how very private that all is!

653, at least in the spirit of Trump America, those who post comments on Nextdoor use their real names-- that's a bonus, if their comments are allowed. (As previously mentioned: a few months ago, my true comment (which countered a twisted Nextdoor article) was also removed.)
136 Steve, Nextdoor had an opportunity to handle this "issues" in a more equitable manner. They didn't choose to: first notification was termination.

Anonymous said...

Remember when you posted people's letters to the editor that they sent to the Tribune, Kathy? Remember when they complained and asked you to take them down because you didn't get their permission to put them on Fix Pacifica? Remember how "equitably" you handled that? You made fun of them, Kathy, and refused to remove them. Remember?

Karma, baby!

Kathy Meeh (Nextdoor is going to the frogs) said...

1040, now several years ago, the Tribune had zero problem with posting letters-to-the-editor on Fix (no warning, no retribution, nothing).
At that time, the NIMBY person(s) who wrote the Letter(s) did have a problem accepting a reprint of their very own public twisted thoughts, words and spin. Now that is a "go figure" isn't it? (General copyright guidelines and those specific to Mercury News/The Tribune were followed).
As mentioned (as I recall), no Letters that I posted were removed from Fix. And, periodically I still post letters-to-the-editor of community or other interest.

Nextdoor's corporate policy of disqualifying participants and comments with "drop dead" notification from a first name only (hence anonymous person) with no official title doesn't make me love them more.
Now Nextdoor has acquired unfriendly me, and gained additional support from "friendly" you-- leaving less community voice, and urgent and civic notification to those eliminated from the forum.
And now I think understand more. Nextdoor isn't a true community forum, it's a private (for profit?) corporation, a citywide email which has acquired an autocratic NIMBY attitude.

Anonymous said...

If Nextdoor is private for profit then the city should not us it for any business.
Let the NIMBY's have it.
All they use it for is to villanize people who don't genuflect to their idealogical bullshit, post lost doggies and kitty's and getting people to pick up the junk from their driveways.
NIMBY's are so magnanimous and selfless.

Anonymous said...

Sinai

Do you known what the player drafted lady in every NFL draft is called?

Helen said...

I received a message on April 28, 2017 from next door after I posted an article from the Pacifica Tribune regarding Sue Digre. Before I received the message, only a couple of my responses had ever been flagged by anyone and none of my original postings had been. I had never been warned before about any of my responses to others and none of my postings were removed.

I know that I have annoyed some people because I have a different opinion than them. I know for a fact that I didn't post or comment anymore than many other people. Also, my original postings were varied and not about the same thing all the time.

I did send questions to Lark. There has been no response. I refuse to promise to behave when I have been called nasty names and insulted because of my stance. As far as I am concerned, I haven't done anything wrong.

I sent about a months worth of comments and postings to Dear Lark, but again, no response. I asked him to please go online and check out what was going on with the Pacifica next door. Again, no response.

At this point in time, I have read only status and cannot comment or post anything.

Just to leave no doubt as to who I am, this is Helen Reisinger

Hi Helen,

I’m reaching out because your neighbors have reported your posts for violating Nextdoor’s Community Guidelines on over-posting.

On Nextdoor, we define over-posting as repeatedly posting about the same topic, or about your business or item for sale, in a way that annoys your neighbors. Repeatedly replying to your own post as a means of bumping it to the top of the newsfeed is also considered over-posting.

In the future, please help create space for your neighbors’ voices to be heard by refraining from over-posting in your Nextdoor neighborhood.

Due to this Guideline violation, your account access to Nextdoor has been limited. You can see your neighborhood newsfeed, but won’t be able to participate in discussions with your neighbors. If you can agree to follow the Guidelines each time you post, we can discuss reinstating your account access.

Let me know if you have any questions.
Best,

CLark
Nextdoor

Helen said...

This is amazing! I just now heard from Lark at next door in response to an email I sent to him telling him some of the things that are going on at next door and after sending him my activity for the last month which clearing shows that I am not talking about one thing and others are doing plenty of talking too.

He said there may be an investigation of others....lmbo! My privileges still have not been reinstated, but WTH!

Next door has become too exhausting. It has made me feel at times that my neighbors are not nice people and I know that is not true. I have plenty of neighbors that are good people and are very nice too.

Kathy Meeh (lending support to Nextdoor offenders) said...

Hi Helen, welcome to try fixing Pacifica (sometimes hell). Post away!!!

Will Nextdoor citywide (not really private) email penalize everyone with a brain? And will City and County government continue to post press releases on such a discriminatory venue?

Thanks for your comment. When you have no hope of "reinstatement"-- if you wish, your comments (851 and 930 above) could be posted as an article.
Who knew Nextdoor (a good place to notice lost cats and dogs) would devolve into penitentiary management.

Peter Loeb said...

Kathy, why do you continue to call Nextdoor citywide email? It's not email and it's not citywide.

Anonymous said...

Please tell us all knowing Loeb, what is it then?

Steve Sinai said...

Nextdoor's self-description -

Nextdoor is the private social network for you, your neighbors and your community. It's the easiest way for you and your neighbors to talk online and make all of your lives better in the real world. And it's free.

Thousands of neighborhoods are already using Nextdoor to build happier, safer places to call home.

People are using Nextdoor to:

Quickly get the word out about a break-in
Organize a Neighborhood Watch Group
Track down a trustworthy babysitter
Find out who does the best paint job in town
Ask for help keeping an eye out for a lost dog
Find a new home for an outgrown bike
Finally call that nice man down the street by his first name

Nextdoor’s mission is to provide a trusted platform where neighbors work together to build stronger, safer, happier communities, all over the world.

Peter Loeb said...

Thank you, Steve Sinai. I came on here because I was told that Kathy Meeh had been kicked off Nextdoor and I wanted to find out why. There are people on Nextdoor who have made false and libelous statements and nothing happens to them, but when I point that out, I get told I've violated the guidelines. Every time I post on Nextdoor, I get personally attacked but nothing is done to to the attackers. That's why I wanted to know what terrible thing Kathy did to deserve being booted off Nextdoor. Come to find out it's because she quoted Steve's Nextdoor post here on Fix Pacifica (if I've understood correctly). I'm losing interest and support for Nextdoor. I don't think they've got their policies worked out to make common sense.

I thought it was odd to refer to it as email when it's not email but more like this blog or an internet forum. As Steve points out, Nextdoor thinks of itself as a private social network (whatever that is). And it's not citywide. One of the frustrating things about it is I can only post to the neighborhoods that Nextdoor says I can. Nextdoor says they are specifically NOT citywide. In addition, some neighborhood that border Pacifica but are not in Pacifica are also included in the "private social network" so it's not citywide but also includes neighborhoods not in the city. Nextdoor does not have its act together, on several levels.

Helen said...

I agree with your take on next door Peter. There are people with views that are totally opposite to mine, but I still like them and respect them. Then there are people who are so nasty and sarcastic in their responses to others if they have the opposite view from them on a topic. These people call others names and attack them personally. There seems to be no consistency as to who is reprimanded or who loses their ND "privileges" altogether.

There is one individual in particular(who shall remain nameless) that people have complained about many times. This is the person that I was over posting with. I responded too many times on a particular post in one day. (I muted that person weeks ago) That person is still going strong on ND while my privileges have been suspended until further notice. Lmbo! Like they say, "life is not fair". But, there is another saying, "What goes around, comes around"....

Chris Fogel said...

I was blocked from Next Door as well for "violating Nextdoor's Community Guidelines on public shaming." No warning and no notice; I just couldn't log in one day and I had to proactively look up who to contact to find out what was up.

My ban was in response to a post I made about a woman who's been drinking while driving in our neighborhood and throwing her wine bottles out the window into the middle of the street. I have found hundreds of these little Sutter Home wine bottles in the streets and gutters as I've walked my dog over the years. I'm not exaggerating. I finally witnessed her tossing a bottle out her car window one afternoon and posted an "open letter" to her about it asking her to knock it off.

Someone complained to management. I have my personal suspicion about who it was that complained about my post, but I'll keep it to myself as I'm pretty sure, just not 100%. Basically, I suspect it's a person in my neighborhood who's having a personal meltdown and took it out on me.

I was able to get my account reinstated after prostrating myself and saying a hundred Hail Mary's, but it's obvious that a small group of people are gaming the Nextdoor complaint system to settle personal scores. That the City has aligned itself with Nextdoor (and by extension, it's policies) as a semi-official communication channel raises some issues.

I've been thinking about bringing this up at the Council level, but they've had a lot on their plate lately.

Victor Spano said...

I am sad to say that Next door is a lame service, because it does not respect the boundaries of Pacifica. I live in the very northern tip of the City, by Fairmont Shopping Center. I can only see and participate in the adjacent neighborhoods of Daly City up to Westmoor Drive, and Pacifica as far south as Manor Drive. I cannot see the bouts going on in the Vallemar, Rockaway, Fairway Park, or Linda Mar Next Door, where membership on Next Door is more robust than it is here in Fairmont. If I want to post something about Fog Fest or Rotary or anything else seeking city-wide attention, I have to get someone living on the south end to repost my posts. I tried complaining about this with Next Door and the City at roll out, but both were unresponsive and could not help. It's a crying shame.