Wednesday, June 22, 2011
Why Stay in Pacifica?
A recent conversation about staying in Pacifica on TripAdvisor. The initial request for suggestions was as follows:
My husband and I are visiting California July 3 - July 10. Will be renting a car and have resersved a room in Pacifica at the Sea Breeze motel. Thinking of using it as a base to visit San Francisco one day and hwy 1 for 2 or 3 days. Thinking maybe visiting Lake Tahoe during our visit as well.
Is this practical to do? In some of the posts I see that there isn't much to do in Pacifica. We are looking for hiking and great ocean views, tide pools, California sights, sounds, tastes...
Thoughts on what to do in Pacifica, what day trips to take with minimal driving. We would like not to have to drive over 1 to 2 hours. Our main goal is to relax and experience California coast.
We are from Wisconsin and this is our first visit.
Thanks for any recommendations, suggestions, tips!
Responses can be seen at the link below. Not a whole lot of love for our town from Bay Area locals, which is the typical response whenever Pacifica comes up.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60713-i30-k4581711-Staying_in_Pacifica-San_Francisco_California.html
Posted by Steve Sinai
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64 comments:
Other than $12 M/L per nite from the TOT I doubt they'll leave much money in Pacifica. Hope they like the Sea Breeze. Great location, clean and simple at bargain price. Checked what they might have read on TripAdvisor to lead them to the Sea Breeze and noticed several comments from 2007 that said hurry up and visit the Sea Breeze because it's going to be torn down next year (2008!!) and a new big luxury hotel built in its place. Ha ha. No need to rush folks. Welcome to Pacifica and have a great time.
Why don't we start telling people on Trip Advisor about some of the local businesses and attractions from a local perspective. Sure, every town has it's issues. But perhaps we could show some of the positive things we have to offer for a change. Hardly any of our restaurants are reviewed. Let's get the word out!
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g32842-Pacifica_California-Vacations.html
Sounds like a job for the Chamber of Commerce.
Sounds like a job for a pro-economy CITY COUNCIL, well past due.
Long term city council majority (silently) deemed this city's economic plan to be RECREATION, without developing a tourist (cash base) infrastructure. ZZZZZ.... Did citizens vote to structurally cripple the city in this manner? No. And, as Steve has shown with periodic Trip Advisor comments, the infrastructure for tourist driven recreation is not noteworthy.
Maybe Pacifica is a sleepover city, or not. Other peninsula cities have better access to transportation, or actual reasons to visit (as in stop and visit) their cities.
But, is the view of Pacifica naturally scenic coming over the hills down into our flat land areas? It is, its beautiful. Any destination reason to keep visitors here spending money? Not really.
What would bring more cash spending visitors to this city? The outlet mall (that's a good one) assuming there is an appropriate area, parking and easy road access. The twice proposed people populated DOWNTOWN center village development was also very good (don't worry about housing and everything else, the project would be reduced in regulatory planning anyhow).
Larger visible land parcels with access to the public, Where? Again, the likely one left is the quarry. Ultimately Mori Point was "gifted" (sold lite) to the snake killing frogs.
Yeah, that will attract tourist, an outlet mall! When I visit the Oregon coast, the FIRST thing I think about is outlet malls. Hey folks we have a McDonalds... and a plumbers supply shop.... and real estate offices! Let's face it, you real estate types have your heads so firmly shoved where it shouldn't be your idea of a good time is super-sized fries. Pathetica.
On TripAdvisor, overseas visitors are constantly asking about the nearest outlet malls. They are disappointed to hear that they have to travel to places like Gilroy or Vacaville to find one.
Anon (1142) you and some of your friends may think you are living in the rural coast of Oregon (where even schools are closed down when there is no money to provide such services), but that's YOUR fantasy. This city has bills, needs jobs, needs services. This city is located in a metropolitan area-- not a rural, marginal coastal area.
Possibly avoiding those super-sized fries hasn't improved your brain, but then that's just my balanced city opinion.
Steve may have the best economic idea about the custom outlet mall, I think he does. How does this get taken to the next step, got ideas?
Huh? It's the City Council's job to put info on TripAdvisor? What the hell do you think a Chamber of Commerce is for?
Anon (1:50), you're playing games. I think other people "get it". Its city council's job to fix Pacifica when possible, and there have been ample, significant opportunities to do just that over the past 10 years.
Trip Advisor comments are shared (hopefully unbiased) traveler information comments. And with regard to this city, these periodic comments are good reality check. Thanks Steve for posting these.
Kathy owns a hammer, and it seems like her only nail is "12-year ineffective city council".
Sounds like the best core city economic plan to me, Scotty (214). And removing those city council members elected or re-elected from 2002 would be sufficient.
Got anything else?
Kathy, do you really need to mention my name in every comment?
The article that started this thread was about comments on TripAdvisor. Another Anon made a good suggestion, "Why don't we start telling people on Trip Advisor about some of the local businesses and attractions from a local perspective." I made the comment "Sounds like a job for the Chamber of Commerce." Kathy Meeh said, "Sounds like a job for a pro-economy CITY COUNCIL." I responded that it's not the City Council's job to put info on TripAdvisor and that was what a Chamber of Commerce is for. Kathy said I'm playing games. I'm not playing games. I'm trying to make positive suggestions to move things forward. Kathy, what are you doing?
Steve (303), it would be disingenuous and discriminatory not to acknowledge your linked suggestions and efforts. This article posting just happens to include both Trip Advisor and outlet mall commentary. And the same people may not be reading the blog as have read the blog prior.
I'm pretty sure researched demographics would indicate a custom outlet mall would be a highly productive economic asset for Pacifica. The outstanding question is should, would and could the city get involved? I think that's about where we are with this conversation.
Anon (415) you're making a positive suggestion to rig Trip Advisor's otherwise unbiased, candid commentary? City Council majority does need to work on the economy in Pacifica, not the myth.
I've used TripAdvisor for years. Anybody who thinks the comments there are all unbiased and that they haven't been "seeded" is a fool.
I was not making a suggestion to "rig" the comments. I was agreeing with the earlier suggestion to tell people about local attractions and businesses. That's not rigging, that's basic marketing. Please read what people write before popping off with your biased and ignorant comments.
"Anybody who thinks the comments there are all unbiased and that they haven't been "seeded" is a fool."
And those who rig the commentary are crooked. But, the comments on this Trip Advisor article and others represented on this blog seem mostly fair. "All" was not a word I used.
Same to Anon (546). Definitely I knew what I was saying, and the context in which it was said. Anonymous, hiding person you are entitled to your concept of "marketing" and "opinion". Others may evaluate the same. And, Trip Advisor comments indicate they have.
Anon (541, 546) marketing. Probably no question that Pacifica is a good driving road stop-over, particularly at Rockaway. Easy good food and lodging there, and a beach walk if desired. For those who would stay an extra day, we still have access to classic Sharp Park 18 hole golf course, or some people may like to hike or try a Segway on one of our local trails.
Short road trips from this area exist, the road may be a little confusing returning from the north. This city has small, convenient shopping centers with easy parking. We have a nice park back in Linda Mar valley, and oh yes, there's a pier (but IMO Princeton has a better one).
I think our difference in understanding (if that's it) is one of vision and scale.
Come on guys, we need a vision and some guts.
Of course there are no strong recommendations for Pacific. Who makes travel plans to see a Taco Bell on the beach or a new grocery store in a strip mall or a red legged frog in a swamp.
We should be courting a quality developer, willing to build a 5 star luxury resort hotel/spa/convention center in the quarry with ocean views and beach/trail connections.
We need to silence or recall the 3 stooges and then work diligently to navigate around the rest of the nutcase NIMBY's who love poverty.
We have enough natural assets, scenic beauty and association with San Francisco to attract hundreds of millions of dollars. We just don't have a plan to capture any of it.
if you hate Pacifica so much, why don't you leave?
My Siamese Anon brother (846), you may not have noticed you're dragging us along while you walk further into the swamp, and neither of us are are leaving the city.
Premium outlet mall. They visit, they shop, they leave. Good luck trying to find a big enough empty space, consensus and approval to get it built sometime in this century. Seriously, want to know what the real mindset is in Pacifica re building anything? Watch a tape of the last Planning Commission meeting wherein they posed and postured and dithered and dallied about the proposed Senior Assisted Living Facility project back on Oddstad. Beautiful project, filling a real need, and in a spot that could use some improvement. The make-up of that planning commission is no accident and they are the poster kids for this ridiculous town. Ridiculous.
"if you hate Pacifica so much, why don't you leave?"
This isn't your town, Anonymous.
Wonder what euphemisms or clever ads we could use to uh "sell" that little air quality problem in the quarry for those luxury hotel guests? Keep 'em indoors? Casino!!!!
Pacifica is very beautiful. Why scar it with outlet malls?
"This isn't your town, Anonymous." Never said it was. I don't understand how a positive idea about posting info on Trip Advisor about things to do, places to eat and places to stay in Pacifica turns into all these negative comments. Telling the world how bad things are Pacifica only makes it worse for the businesses here.
"Pacifica is very beautiful. Why scar it with outlet malls?"
It's a beautiful setting, but the town itself is run-down. Unless the city starts generating some money, it won't be a city much longer.
A nicely-done outlet mall is hardly a scar.
"Pacifica is very beautiful. Why scar it with outlet malls?" I think were are referring to "an outlet mall, as in a single outlet mall.
Anon (1123) why not live in the outback, where civilization is not a problem for you?
Anon (1207) admire your spirit in trying to save diminishing returns and desperation commerce in Pacifica. What's needed is the larger vision and with the "guts" to build it, as expressed by Mike Bell, 6/23, 7:48pm, re-read that.
My view, build both the quarry as a destination downtown village (possibly somewhat along the lines of Measure L), and maybe also in that area or another area include a custom outlet mall (depending upon the General Plan information).
Improve the highway, improve the city. Infill areas where there can be commercial activity. What did Markus say on another post, only something like "16% of our population works here".
Find solutions to "not much to do in Pacifica" where people can have fun ("recreation"), and where there can be tax revenue generated. Remember humans are supposed to be smart???
Fortunately Anon (1123) the quarry is blighted, "scared" land, so you won't mind that area being improved. Glad we can agree on that one. Hurray, we can move forward!
Check the link again for the comments about Pacifica on Trip Advisor. It seems a number of people have positive things to say about staying here, what to do in the area, and so on.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60713-i30-k4581711-Staying_in_Pacifica-San_Francisco_California.html
It looks like some locals joined TripAdvisor after the original post and encouraged the folks from Wisconsin to stay here.
Where's the money that all these natural wonders are supposed to attract? Pier, trails, beach cost a fortune to maintain. We've been sold a lemon by years of council who claimed these things would create revenue. Poorly maintained at best and getting worse. Now they want the public to help maintain them after we're already paying the city to do it. I want to see a few local leaders sign up to scoop poop.
Chamber out to reach out to those visitors from Wisconsin and make sure they have a good time. They seem like the "outdoorsy" types that we supposedly will attract with all our recreational opportunities.
I only see 2 people from Pacifica in those posts on TripAdvisor
"Pier, trails, beach cost a fortune to maintain. We've been sold a lemon by years of council who claimed these things would create revenue." Anon (242).
City by volunteers. Know how much this "free" effort is costing us "volunteers" with this backward, reverse economic plan because the City can't or wouldn't get its act together? Answer for those who need a picture drawn: Plenty.
From Pacifica I see simba, pacificat, and pickledhutch. Pickled Hutch is a Pacifica business.
Good for them. Somebody better promote this town.
simba doesn't count since it's our resident smart ass.
"It looks like some locals joined TripAdvisor after the original post and encouraged the folks from Wisconsin to stay here." Steve Sinai
The only "local" who joined TripAdvisor since Steve (Simba) made his original post is pickledhutch who interestingly lists themselves as being from San Francisco.
And who are you Cheerleader Anonymous (1010), and what is your ambiguous point? I think we would all like to know who you are and what you are saying with your comment, if anything.
Boosting Pacifica's economy by $2.50 isn't going to cut-it for the kind of infrastructure failure this city has accumulated.
If Simba is Steve, his articles following TripAdvisor are of interest, and his comments are reasonable, helpful and not overstated or understated as expected.
The point is that a few people posted useful information on TripAdvisor to answer the original poster's questions, instead of just bitching here about how everything is the City Council's fault.
The Chamber of Commerce should be monitoring TripAdvisor and providing info about local businesses such as hotels and restaurants and other attractions so people have a reason to visit and stay here.
Check the link again. The original posters were very grateful for the info.
Rather than simply taking a snapshot look at TripAdvisor and jumping to the conclusion that everyone loves Pacifica, people ought to follow the site for a few months and see how rarely Pacifica comes up. Usually it's only mentioned when someone asks about how to get from SF to Half Moon Bay or Monterey, and they're told to take Highway 1 through Pacifica.
Otherwise, when someone inquires about staying here, almost all of the TA locals talk about how cold and foggy it is, that there's nothing to do, and to go down to HMB or Santa Cruz for a better coastal experience.
The issue of surfing lessons has come up maybe half-a-dozen times in the last few years. I've given information on Pacifica surf schools, yet in every case, the visitors were discouraged from coming here by other local TA regulars, and were instead given advice to go to Santa Cruz or Southern California. I don't remember anyone saying they decided to surf in Pacifica.
I've been on TripAdvisor for several years, and you start getting a good idea of what people are looking for when it comes to tourist destinations. Our advantage is that we offer oceanfront hotels, while SF and Marin don't. Visitors want nice scenery, but they also want easy access to shopping, restaurants, and public transportation. Pacifica offers the first (as long as you can ignore the shabby buildings,) but falls far short in the latter three.
Amazingly enough, the trailer park attracts visitors, since there are so few places to park RVs in the Bay Area.
Pacificat, who I've never seen on TA before, is right about the CoC needing to monitor TA. City officials and those who keep claiming we can build a "visitor-serving" economy should also follow the site, in order to understand just how far off the mark they are in their belief that Pacifica is a desirable place to visit. We're not even close, and we need to learn what we all have to do to genuinely change that.
BTW - A lot of the people on TA who post using San Francisco as their location don't actually live in SF. For example, our own Karen Rosenstein used to be on TA, and if I remember right, she listed her location as SF rather than Pacifica.
Pacificat (1135) you said "The original posters were very grateful for the info." Right, except comments like those of JasmineSurf(6/23/11, 1:31am) shelling for Holiday Inn, at the expense of the Sea Breeze motel. But, the Wisconsin couple figured-out Sea Breeze is clean and the price was right, good for them.
You said "...instead of just bitching here about how everything is the City Council's fault." WELL???? It is 8+ year City council majority's FAULT. THEIR FAULT, they went way out-of-their way to "gift" structural economic failure to this city. Further, the anti-economic ideology has caused a social divide among our citizens, learned substandard expectations, and a limited City future through land loss. This was intentional, and beyond stupid. How grateful to these leadership idiots do you think anyone in their right mind should be?
And, if your comparison is 1) promotional comments on TripAdvisor vs. 2) fixing the structural deficiency in this city-- that is another manifestation of a "learned substandard expectation" and absurd.
After deciding on a destination don't most people pick hotels by price and perceived value? Sea Breeze and HIE are apples and oranges but both are good, well-run hotels and neither one should suffer in the comparison. Be happy we have two good ones and they have fans. The reviews of several of the others are just disgraceful and probably discourage potential visitors who might infer, correctly, that this is a chronically run down, financially strapped not-so-special beach town with nothing of interest unless you surf or walk the trails. Way too easy to say skip it and go elsewhere. Clearly the beach and the trails aren't cutting it.
At least a few people are contributing to solutions instead of just whining about the problems.
Uh, the beach and the trails and the view are free...to the visitors. A water bottle and a taco on the beach aren't exactly a revenue stream.
Uh, if we get our sh$t together, a hotel room and the accompanying meals and other expenses are definitely a revenue stream.
To second Steve's point, I've heard from numerous out-of-town folk that they've only heard of us for our closest-to-SF and ocean view RV park. Too bad we can't build a downtown in Palmetto where those folks could visit and leave a few more dollars behind.
Anon (230), solutions, the big solution-- how about recalling DeJarnatt, Digre, Vreeland?
But, since you're more interested in smaller solutions and keeping the same 'ol NIMBY negative-impact leadership machine, maybe re-read the reality description (whining) comments here. Especially re-read Steve (1235).
Anon (234) has done a great job described the city developed economic plan. Wonder why that "solution" is not working-out financially? Scotty (343) has a better suggestion than that reality (which the city may be working on), but, the quarry is another big economic component. Somewhere in the mixture research bringing in a custom outlet mall, and a developer to build it-- that will bring in shoppers. City infrastructure improvement is possible if City Council will work for and promote it (clearly they have not). MaryAnn and Len likely will work to improve this city. Anyone else? Can't fix the weather.
Plenty of attractions in Pacifica:
The Pier
The Old Waste Water Treatment pit
The Quarry
The new smelling sewer plant
Safeway
Denny's
Amazing, cliff-hanging apartments.
Empty store fronts
Road in front of my house
Walgreen movie theater
U'SAgain "for profit" clothing donation boxes
Cell phone zones that work
Rejected development map
3 year in process dog park
Volunteer ceremony
Downtown Pacifica
$2 million GGNRA frog sunning bridge.
Ok, Kathy - get to work on the big solution of recalling DeJarnatt, Digre, Vreeland. Good luck with that.
I could list a lot of negative things about San Francisco. What's the point? Or is this the "I hate Pacifica" list?
"..recalling DeJarnatt, Digre, Vreeland..."
Anon (629) looking for big solutions, I just offered the top of the list. By comparison playing with the TripAdvisor list is "small change". It won't be me advancing a needed recall, but it is on my "for Santa wish list".
Anon (631) why would you introduce unrelated San Francisco into the fun neglected Pacifica list initially posted by Anon (510)? The comparison you've suggested is San Francisco (a functional metropolitan destination city) to Pacifica (kind of an outback mission)-- do you really want to go there?
City council not taking care of balanced economic solutions for this City over 8 years is outrageous from my view. That does not translate to "I hate Pacifica", that translates to a purposefully neglected city. Why? That is the question. Want to answer that?
Does anyone else have a hard time understanding Kathy?
Anon (826), let me clarify. "City council not taking care of balanced economic solutions for this City over 8 years is outrageous from my view.... Why?" As in why did did DeJarnatt, Digre, Lancelle and Vreeland reject economic development opportunities and thereby willfully neglect the conventional infrastructure integrity of this city?
Otherwise if you're still having problems understanding what I did say, you will need to be more specific. And, note I did not address you in the 3rd person.
Kathy's easy enough to understand if you want to. It's a blog not a dissertation. Chill, have a taco and a bottle of water on LMB. Become part of the revenue stream.
Kathy, here's some useful advice: only use quotation marks when you are actually quoting somebody.
Critical Anon (1140), "Fix Pacific" exists because City Council majority failed.
Kathy can't communicate very well, but she tries to make up for it in volume.
Then again, Anon (1024) has "nothing" to say, however shortly stated. My comment at 9:50am was not short enough for you to comprehend?
Typical bs. Can't argue with what you say so they're going to bitch about how you say it.
Thanks Anon (1245) from all of us who would like to be mostly brief, but try to get City information out there, including the devolved economic/social history. The good people of the City have been in denial or duped for too long.
I love Pacifica.
I hate the mess created by the poverty loving, faux enviro, NIMBY's.
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