Pacifica Tribune/Barbara Arietta, Correspondent, 10/15/13. "Measure V proponents, opponents face off this Saturday."
| Friendly debate, something like this |
"This Saturday morning, Oct.
19, supporters of the newly proposed phone tax, identified on the
November ballot as Measure"V," will debate the opponents of the Measure
at the monthly breakfast meeting of the Pacifica-Daly City Democrats.
Note: photograph from Associated Press, found on Democratic Underground.com.
Posted by Kathy Meeh
44 comments:
I'm not a supporter of Measure V but I will vote for it based solely on Mr. Wagner and his co-joined twin being the debaters against the item.
Well, that makes sense, Todd.
Mein Gott, Herr Doktor! Have we just discovered a use for the twins? This may require further testing to see if we can duplicate our results, but even a limited application could help Pacifica.
Todd I am disappointed in you.
For voting Tom?
No, for letting Wagner and MarkieMark control your vote. At least on the last school tax measure you thought for yourself. You are a-changin', Todd.
No for letting Personalities over shadow issues.
I support Measure V, but I won't be voting for it because Todd is. There ya go, Tom, I cancelled out his vote.
Anonymous 3:55 Does that mean you won't be voting or that you will vote no on measure V ? There is a difference.
Sorry, Tom, no real convert here. I always intended to vote No on V, along with 4 other voters in my household. I was just kidding about Todd. Maybe he was kidding, too? And, yeah, it's going to be about turnout, isn't it?
Thank you for both your votes and your honesty. Yes it is about turn out so please everyone VOTE. A few minutes of your time makes a big difference.We can continue to raise taxes or we can support economic development that will increase our tax base.
Tom Clifford said...
"Thank you for both your votes and your honesty. Yes it is about turn out so please everyone VOTE. A few minutes of your time makes a big difference.We can continue to raise taxes or we can support economic development that will increase our tax base."
Increasing the tax base takes time, and neither prevents the other from being needed and necessary.
I was out of town but from what I understand our side did very well and their were some embarrassing comments from the yes debaters.
Yes this is going to depend on turnout. Don't take anything for granted, make sure you vote. The yes side has dumped $55,000 taxpayer dollars and unions & politicians have put up another $15,000. I believe we still have more people against this thing but they have to get out and vote no.
Hutch said...
"I was out of town but from what I understand our side did very well and their were some embarrassing comments from the yes debaters."
And as a result, the Pacifica - Daly City Democrats voted by a wide margin (27 - 12) to endorse YES on Measure V.
http://pacifica.patch.com/groups/elections/p/pacificadaly-city-democrats-club-endorses-yes-on-measure-v-after-debate
COOL!
No surprise that the Democratic club endorsed this tax on phones. Politicians love taxes that will give unions more money so they vote for them. Most money from the yes side comes from unions, the city and people connected with them. Our side are everyday people. Todd I thought you told me at the Fog Fest you were voting no on V? Now you WANT to give city staff raises?
1034, other than a Pacifica-Daly City Democrats vote of those in attendance, there is no result. Nothing follows from your comment, the information does not connect.
The San Mateo County Democrat organization did endorse our Measure V. You may have received that flyer in the mail. And what does the County Democrat organization care that we're taxed and overloaded with fees in Pacifica, while too little development in this city pays the overhead.
At the meeting, with any luck all the Daly City members voted yes for our tax. But were you there, what was your observation, did you vote, and how did you vote, why did you vote, what is your consideration about the tax, etc.? Its all about you, not whether others attended.
Ultimately had those who will vote no stuffed that meeting, the vote would have been no. Hence, the vote at that meeting is a small sample of nothing.
Kathy Meeh said, "1034, other than a Pacifica-Daly City Democrats vote of those in attendance, there is no result. Nothing follows from your comment, the information does not connect."
The connection is that while Hutch is heralding that the Yes on Measure V campaign didn't fare well, the factual result was that the members of the P-DC Democrats Club voted to endorse the position of the Yes on Measure Y campaign.
Only members of the club could vote -- therefore no "stuffing" of votes by either side. Most present, gauged by the personal introductions of those in the room, were Pacificans (not Daly City residents). These weren't "politicians" as Hutch also is alluding to, but local community members, regular citizens, many with very long residency in Pacifica. (I'm sure that the club appreciates that you think they are a "small group of nothing".)
1256, let me clarify that comment further. The Pacifica tax vote at the Pacifica-Daly City meeting was a politically correct vote in line with the San Mateo County Central Democrat Committee. And the question is what does the Central Committee have to do with a tax measure for this city, and who influenced that vote? Was the influence to the Central Committee from a few people in Pacifica city or political leadership?
Thanks for your clarification that all Club members at that particular meeting could vote. All members voting is only fair, except that the vote at the meeting included "members present only" (without advance notice or broader survey), and was not even a true representation of all those people in attendance at the meeting (public welcome).
That vote included those members from Daly City (however many), just as the vote from the Democrat Central Committee included the 20 city representation from San Mateo County. Everyone loves Pacifica, why not vote to tax their residents again, en lieu of a real economic plan (which includes development)?
BTW, are the Daly City members enjoying so many programs presented by the Club which are all about local Pacifica issues and politics?
Democrats=tax and spend!
I am voting NO for the tax only because Bray, is voting yes!
234, "tax and spend Democrats", do you really want to go there? Republicans just wasted $24 billion dollars, and furloughed government employees for 2 weeks WITH PAY during their elective government shutdown.
Then there is and was the several trillion dollar Bush administration war sham we've been living with for more than 10 years and into the future. We could continue, but spare us please.
1256 says "Most present, gauged by the personal introductions of those in the room, were Pacificans (not Daly City residents). These weren't "politicians" as Hutch also is alluding to."
Members of the public present at this meeting could not vote unless they were club members. As Kathy rightly said the San Mateo Democrats alresdy endorsed V along with every other city tax as they always do. So this vote yesterday was just a rubber stamp of what the county wants.
I'm a long time democrat but I don't agree with them here. As I said the main reason politicians (D or R) and unions support added taxes is it means more money in the unions pockets and the politicians get re-elected.
Again if there's any question about which side has the regular citizens and who has the politicians and unions just look at the 100 members of our Facebook group.
www.facebook.com/groups/DefeatPhoneTax
3:19
But Obama kept Bush's wars going, so he is just as bad.
He also tried to start a war with Syria to have a war of his own but congress wouldn't let him.
Funny the Yes on V side does not make their members or supporters easily known as the no side does. They have been sneaky on this whole deal. Even the way they wrote this tax is misleading.
Anything to avoid facing the reality that this thing is looking like a Yes victory. Is a landslide possible in a low turnout election? We're going to find out.
This is packaged, off-the-shelf politics. Consultants peddling the latest money-maker to cash-strapped cities. Very trendy. No shortage of funds or friends. 80% pass rate. They'll be back to build on this one. Once you lay the groundwork, it gets easier. There's big bucks to be made by everyone but the taxpayer. Oh well.
What's the No strategy? I was glad to see no sign of this silly us vs them stuff on that flyer from Chuck Gerughty. None of that 'we're the regular people' nonsense. Union bashing in Pacifica? Leave it alone.
The yes side is on track to spend 100 thousand dollars on this measure. That includes the citys 57thousand dollars spent to tee this up and the 16 thousand dollars spent by the unions from over the hill. More of that to come. In fact, several thousands of dollars have come from out of state, including Washington DC. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, anyone wonder why EMC, the parent company of our ambulance contractor, contributed over a thousand dollars? Interesting info at yesterdays debate.
Make of it what you will. Pacifica has 12,528 registered Democrats, 3,549 registered Republicans and 5,515 registered with no party preference.
319, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were already underway when the Obama administration took office, except the Bush administration targeted the wrong country (Iraq), and may have missed the "Mission Accomplished" time table duration for both wars by more than 10 years. As Colin Powell said, "If you break it, you own it." So we own it.
As you may know, a President may take direct military action with or without the approval of Congress. This Congress is full of anti-government "looney tunes" who are unable to compromise or govern-- they are defective. Even so the President's alternative strategy to bring in the UN, rather than bomb the sarin gas manufacturing sites in Syria, so far seems to be working.
The international standard (even though Syria didn't sign-on) is that that leaders, including dictators, are not allowed to gas (kill and maim) their citizens. Seems like a good international agreement, right? This time there is proof that gassing citizens did happen in Syria. But generally most countries do not seek aggressive military action toward other countries, so there has been avoidance by this country and others to get involved. But President Obama (representing the USA) has stepped-up, as has the UN.
What say we avoid talking national politics. National politics tends to be divisive, as much so as local (CITY, regional, sometimes State) politics. But locally if we can agree on enough issues in an effort to work toward and build a better economy in our city, we might succeed together and that would be great.
40% approval rating isn't anything to brag about!
Anon 607 said "The yes side is on track to spend 100 thousand dollars on this measure."
Exactly why we need to vote this election. I've spent hours talking to voters in person and most people I've talked to are against this tax. At least 75%. But if you don't actually vote it wont matter.
716, 37% Obama, 5% Congress, 10/9/13.
37% approval rating. Is that Obama or our city council?
This is the last day to register to vote. You can do it online here http://registertovote.ca.gov
Was at the debate on Saturday and the NO side clearly was better prepared and much better in getting their point across. The YES duet kept talking over each other and getting emotional. The NO side brought up some interesting points regarding who was exempt from the PGE tax (lower income) and why were those same exemptions not carried over onto the telecommunications tax. Didn't know that before and found that somewhat insincere on the YES side. Too much talk about the resource center on the YES side when the funds are not dedicated and the center is fully funded for this fiscal year. That was a heart string pull instead of facts NO side was talking about.
City Council has zero shame. Just shut up and pay them the higher taxes and fees.
Watch what happens to the sewer tax if they get the $50,000,000 million poop plant bond.
I think it's remarkable that any of the club members voted No. This seemed like a suicide mission. The party line is usually what comes out of that club and the Dems party line is Yes. Unfortunately, the headline will be about the 2 to 1 loss and little more. Not encouraging.
By the local Dems President own count, 80 attended, 37 voted, and of those 37, 12 voted no position because that's all they could. After Babs berating them that they could only vote yes or take a no position, and that the central committee had already taken a yes position, it's amazing that 12 stepped away from the cliff and voted contrary to her instructions. With 80 in the room, that leaves quite a few disenfranchised voters. Is that the Democratic way in P-town?
37 to 12? That's 3 to 1. It's SOP to allow only the club members to vote. Doubtful that came as a surprise to the No debaters since they often attend. 12 is still better than expected. People like to vote party and union.
Kalimah Salahuddin for the yes side said at the debate:
"The city does a fake budget to comply with the state then does a real one afterwards"
She has a real grasp on City Finances.
Pretty appalling choice of words. Chalk it up to her political inexperience more than anything. A more seasoned politician would have found 3 other neutral ways to express that idea. Was that the first string team?
not that it matters much but 37 total votes cast. 25 yes to 12 no.
Looking at the Yes sides volunteer list it's pretty barron. Only about 5 people www.signupgenius.com/go/30E0E4FA4AE29A57-volunteer
The pac dem tax debate and vote a curious mix. As I counted the standing room only crowd, maybe 90. 37 were members and voted which means upwards of 53 were not members and did not vote. But everyone paid close attention to a spirited debate where the No side was much better prepared. Even the Yes side acknowledged they did not do well and looked pretty glum.
I saw a lot of folks leaving as the vote was being tabulated and they stopped to meet with the No side outside the room. So, one can make some decisions--the Yes side won among members, who were a minority in attendance. The majority of attendees, non members and not voting, made Yes or No support decisions based on the debate and a lot of these folks talked to the No side outside.
So maybe the No side did just fine and the Pac Dem club membership vote did reflect the mood of the entire room.
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