tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post8975925194123704258..comments2023-11-28T20:40:14.193-08:00Comments on Fix Pacifica: Pacifica approves new waste-disposal contractFix Pacificahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14451072441256706977noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-42587368229717381422010-02-13T09:18:35.779-08:002010-02-13T09:18:35.779-08:00this website/blog is absolutely ridiculous -- a fo...this website/blog is absolutely ridiculous -- a forum for the pin-headed psusilaminous among us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-79604296995154169272010-02-12T17:40:08.513-08:002010-02-12T17:40:08.513-08:00Steve, agreed, if the idea was to let the contract...Steve, agreed, if the idea was to let the contract run to completion. What threw me was your comment about Coastside breaking the contract giving the City the right to go out for bids. If it's about bids for a starting time after the term ends, then Coastside's contract compliance might be a motivator, but wouldn't be necessary.<br /><br />Trying to piece together the various comments, it seems then that the complaint is that the City agreed to the assignment of the contract to Recology and didn't also go out for bids for the end of the term. Is that about right?<br /><br />The City essentially extended the contract term, agreed to an inflation-related increase at a fixed time, set a time for renegotiation of terms, and settled the issue of the outstanding $800,000.<br /><br />If the City had simply agreed to contract assignment, they'd have gotten the money, without any understanding with Recology about future events other than the end of the contract term. They could then have done as some want, and sent out the RFP.<br /><br />If those two scenarios are reasonably complete, the judgment call seems to comes down to one or the other.<br /><br />Would other haulers bid against Recology once they became the incumbent?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-27603024532067466422010-02-12T16:39:23.843-08:002010-02-12T16:39:23.843-08:00Last year the city was seriously considering an RF...Last year the city was seriously considering an RFP for a new garbage collector. It never got so far that there was a definite plan, but it looked like the city was going to let the Coastside contract run to its completion date, which was a year or two away, and in the meantime let other providers bid on the next contract. <br /><br />There would have been no interruption of service, and I seriously doubt Coastside would have been allowed to simply stop performing according to its current contract. The whole idea that Coastside would stop collecting garbage simply because a new contract went out to bid is ridiculous.Steve Sinainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-31220428236907166042010-02-12T15:34:13.138-08:002010-02-12T15:34:13.138-08:00Jeffrey, thanks for the section of code. That hel...Jeffrey, thanks for the section of code. That helps me better understand what you were thinking. So you'd see any emergency that might arise from a dispute with Coastside being handled with an emergency contract with some city or other commercial hauler?<br /><br />Granted that could work, eventually. How quickly could an emergency arrangement be set up? There'd be some pretty big disruption while finding an organization with enough trucks and available staffing to take on all the routes, the extra tipping, additional truck maintenance, etc... <br /><br />And absent a pre-arranged contract that could not be done in secret, there'd be no reason to think it'd be any cheaper than Coastside, nor that they'd be any good at having the routes nailed down right away.<br /><br />Note, too, that the code refers to the "contractual rights of the scavenger of the City." Either the contract is still in force, in which case outsourcing to another hauler would impair those rights, or the contract is not in force, in which case Coastside would be free to do whatever they wanted, including no longer providing services to Pacifica.<br /><br />None of this sounds like a good way to conduct business except as a last resort.Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-21495856154064837702010-02-12T15:27:42.647-08:002010-02-12T15:27:42.647-08:00Last post should be attributed to me.Last post should be attributed to me.Sandy Richardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-66551890287947654702010-02-12T15:26:22.811-08:002010-02-12T15:26:22.811-08:00Richard "never a resident of Pacifica" S...Richard "never a resident of Pacifica" Saunders:<br />When the terms of a contract are violated there is a prescribed legal process available to those who seek performance from the offending party. It is called "mitigation of damages". Look it up and report back to us. Also, please answer the above questions which you continue to ignore. On second thought, just go away and annoy those in your own community with your pedantic questions.Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-32865008181111992252010-02-12T15:25:58.421-08:002010-02-12T15:25:58.421-08:00Typically an RFP goes out near the end of a contra...Typically an RFP goes out near the end of a contract's term, with the start date being immediately after the current contract expires.<br /><br />You were saying an RFP should go out now, right? What did you have in mind for a start date? This was all in the context of Steve saying Coastside had violated the contract. Were you thinking of letting the current contract run to completion? or terminating it once the RFP process completed?<br /><br />On the question of assignment, would you have denied the assignment?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-27585378621337799972010-02-12T15:23:36.717-08:002010-02-12T15:23:36.717-08:00If you're suggesting that it might happen in a...<i>If you're suggesting that it might happen in a different order than I listed above (going out for proposals, choosing a vendor, establishing a start date, then terminating the Coastside contract), my question to you anticipated that. If you were Coastside and you saw this happening, why wouldn't you just stop spending money picking up the trash?</i><br /><br />uhm because the city has a contingency if Coastside stops picking up the trash?<br /><br /><b>Sec. 6-5.108. - Refuse: Permits to collect and transport.</b><br /><br />It shall be unlawful, except as otherwise provided in this section, for any person to collect, transport, or carry refuse over any street or public place in the City unless such person is an agent or employee of the City acting within the scope of his employment or has been awarded a contract by the City as scavenger. <i>The City Manager, however, with the approval of the Council, may issue permits to transport or carry refuse over streets and public places of the City to the scavenger of any other City or public agency if the Council finds and determines that such permit is in the public interest and will not impair the contractual rights of the scavenger of the City. </i>The City Manager, with the approval of the Council, may also issue permits to any person to collect, transport, or carry rubbish and waste matter, other than garbage, for purposes purely incidental to the conduct of any lawful business within the City, other than the business of collecting, transporting, or carrying refuse.Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-73851705414615752010-02-12T15:18:32.569-08:002010-02-12T15:18:32.569-08:00What are you talking about Richard? I'm awaiti...What are you talking about Richard? I'm awaiting your documentation. Also, the question has been asked before and you continue to evade the answer. What City do you reside in? Have you ever been a resident of the City of Pacifica? What is your agenda trolling a blog pertaining to city business that appears to be none of your business?Sandy Richardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-31255918119244624822010-02-12T15:17:01.378-08:002010-02-12T15:17:01.378-08:00I never said the contract should be terminated, bu...I never said the contract should be terminated, but I wouldn't argue that the threat of trash not being collected was legitimate during an RFP process.Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-20134459194559010312010-02-12T15:13:45.754-08:002010-02-12T15:13:45.754-08:00Don't see too many concerns in the City of Ora...Don't see too many concerns in the City of Orange:<br /><a href="http://orange.freedomblogging.com/2010/01/05/old-towne-change-in-trash-collection-company-will-require-a-few-adjustments-and-time-for-residents/10353/" rel="nofollow">City of Orange changes garbage collector and the planet continues to spin...</a>Sandy Richardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-90912455558288106632010-02-12T15:08:44.446-08:002010-02-12T15:08:44.446-08:00Sandy, you're not talking about what I'm t...Sandy, you're not talking about what I'm talking about.<br /><br />Back to Jeffrey and others who want to say that the contract has been violated and should be terminated.<br /><br />Two parties have a contract. One wants payment and some other performance items. The other wants assignment to a third party.<br /><br />Your suggested approach is to go out for proposals. How do you see that proceeding?<br /><br />I'm still hoping you'll offer a thought on why Coastside would keep picking up the trash in the knowledge that the contract is going to be terminated.Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-11410229893504602122010-02-12T15:03:07.614-08:002010-02-12T15:03:07.614-08:00So Richard, you don't seem to believe that fre...So Richard, you don't seem to believe that free market competiton amongst vendors/businesses/corporations/garbage collection companies would yield a positive result for the end consumer. Could you please provide us with credible documentation which backs up this incredible notion?Sandy Richardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-13903682126504948092010-02-12T14:57:38.446-08:002010-02-12T14:57:38.446-08:00Yes.
If you're suggesting that it might happe...Yes.<br /><br />If you're suggesting that it might happen in a different order than I listed above (going out for proposals, choosing a vendor, establishing a start date, then terminating the Coastside contract), my question to you anticipated that. If you were Coastside and you saw this happening, why wouldn't you just stop spending money picking up the trash?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-90234820062626655972010-02-12T14:45:51.199-08:002010-02-12T14:45:51.199-08:00So, you like the idea of telling Coastside (and Re...<i>So, you like the idea of telling Coastside (and Recology) off, terminating the contract, and going out for bids. Who are you going to send bids out to? Waste Management and who else?</i><br /><br />I'll ask again, politely. Do you even understand the RFP process?Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-59025019230008926092010-02-12T14:44:10.653-08:002010-02-12T14:44:10.653-08:00Do you know what transpired between city staff and...Do you know what transpired between city staff and Coastside over the last 6 months? Do tell.<br /><br />So, you like the idea of telling Coastside (and Recology) off, terminating the contract, and going out for bids. Who are you going to send bids out to? Waste Management and who else?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-30997624942141119582010-02-12T14:39:58.795-08:002010-02-12T14:39:58.795-08:00wow Richard that's a marvelous point. I wonde...wow Richard that's a marvelous point. I wonder why that never came up in the last 6 months???Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-82223546496443135782010-02-12T14:36:15.453-08:002010-02-12T14:36:15.453-08:00So you tell Coastside that you're done with th...So you tell Coastside that you're done with them, that they violated the contract, and you're going to go out and get someone else to pick up the trash.<br /><br />Is this just your idea of brinksmanship, with the idea being to scare them into writing an $800,000 check and slash their rates?<br /><br />Brinksmanship carries risks. If Coastside sees the RFP go out and believes that the City isn't looking back, why would Coastside spend another penny to execute on a no-longer-in-force contract?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-2875983878183238242010-02-12T14:31:00.822-08:002010-02-12T14:31:00.822-08:00I'm sorry Kathleen, I should have been more di...I'm sorry Kathleen, I should have been more direct. To suppose that the garbage would not be collected is as intelligent as supposing that the earth is cooling because temperatures drop from August to February. anything is possible in the mind of Richard Saunders.Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-68716239656595721602010-02-12T14:26:02.256-08:002010-02-12T14:26:02.256-08:00What are we Sicily? The threat of our garbage not ...What are we Sicily? The threat of our garbage not getting picked up? Piling up in the streets? <br /><br />Global warming?<br /><br />Burn the frickin shit in the streets!!!!!!<br />Call their bluff is what I would of done.Kathleen Rogannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-33222837011699298722010-02-12T14:17:37.639-08:002010-02-12T14:17:37.639-08:00Which possibility? Mere conflict? Breaking the c...Which possibility? Mere conflict? Breaking the contract? Going out for bids? Or cessation of services?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-72929551349035029892010-02-12T14:16:39.020-08:002010-02-12T14:16:39.020-08:00Did you consider that it gets colder from August t...Did you consider that it gets colder from August to February, thereby debunking the myth of global warming?Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-51540272144271521372010-02-12T14:14:08.279-08:002010-02-12T14:14:08.279-08:00Did that possibility ever come up during any negot...Did that possibility ever come up during any negotiations in Coastside's decades of history with Pacifica?Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-33898843457332812562010-02-12T14:05:00.456-08:002010-02-12T14:05:00.456-08:00What's your thought on why Coastside would con...What's your thought on why Coastside would continue collecting garbage if the City deemed the contract void and went out to bid?Richard Saundersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-5842748912636029242010-02-12T13:55:33.035-08:002010-02-12T13:55:33.035-08:00Do you disagree that going out to bid might put co...<i>Do you disagree that going out to bid might put collection at risk?</i><br /><br />Absolutely.Jeffrey W Simonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00177874741526642177noreply@blogger.com