tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post3044893956556074052..comments2023-11-28T20:40:14.193-08:00Comments on Fix Pacifica: City Council meeting, Monday, June 24, 2013Fix Pacificahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14451072441256706977noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-51120716316079733832013-06-23T12:11:42.970-07:002013-06-23T12:11:42.970-07:00right. typical knee-jerk reaction. omg, there'...right. typical knee-jerk reaction. omg, there's litter! let's crackdown on everybody. limit their access and activities. they could all be litterers! well, they're not all litterers. and since when do we make public policy and laws based on what people might do? Enforce the laws on the books, continue the city clean-up, and get those volunteers organized-especially the ones who benefit from fireworks sales. no one likes litter, but there are bigger issues at stake here. knee-jerk reaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-15216037408067957382013-06-23T11:41:11.181-07:002013-06-23T11:41:11.181-07:00Anonymous at 12:11pm said...
"921anonn get ov...Anonymous at 12:11pm said...<br />"921anonn get over yourself. it's a public beach not your living room. <br />you're pretty quick to compromise other peoples rights. don't mess with mine."<br /><br />Exactly the point Anonymous 12:11pm. It's a PUBLIC beach. Your right is to trash your living room, not to trash a publicly owned area. Check out the state law; littering is ILLEGAL. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-58980409415450484892013-06-22T12:11:50.632-07:002013-06-22T12:11:50.632-07:00921anonn get over yourself. it's a public beac...921anonn get over yourself. it's a public beach not your living room. <br /> <br />you're pretty quick to compromise other peoples rights. don't mess with mine. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-47624672579713792882013-06-22T11:33:45.566-07:002013-06-22T11:33:45.566-07:00@921 No, I'm clear on what sanctimonious is.
W...@921 No, I'm clear on what sanctimonious is.<br />When did anyone here say that every beachgoer is perfect, clean and tidy? Never happened. There are people who make a mess and a lot more people who don't. That includes those celebrating the 4th at the beach. Banning people and their lawful activities from the beach is heavy-handed over reaction. Enforce the laws, continue the city and volunteer clean-up. Let people enjoy the beach! They have every right to be there. It's their beach, too.<br />Could it be that's the real issue?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-58422082855058706612013-06-22T09:21:03.168-07:002013-06-22T09:21:03.168-07:00Anonymous at 9:03pm said...
"@714 You come ac...Anonymous at 9:03pm said...<br />"@714 You come across as real sanctimonious. Your personal mission to save the beach and habitat from law-breakers and polluters does not trump another person's right to enjoy that beach as long as they are not breaking any laws and IMHO no one is encouraging anyone to break any laws or saying they have a right to. Seems like that should be manageable even in this knee-jerk town."<br /><br />Wish that it were true that all people were respectful of the beaches and city, however they aren't. This sadly includes Pacificans as well as visitors. Have you been to the beach on a hot sunny day and the day after the 4th of July? It really is a mess. <br /><br />Protecting everyone's right to enjoy the beaches is just what this is about; covered in trash they're not a very enjoyable place to be.<br /><br />PS Maybe the issue here is that some think being supportive of compromise is being sanctimonious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-21669647800166756872013-06-21T21:03:54.671-07:002013-06-21T21:03:54.671-07:00@714 You come across as real sanctimonious. Your p...@714 You come across as real sanctimonious. Your personal mission to save the beach and habitat from law-breakers and polluters does not trump another person's right to enjoy that beach as long as they are not breaking any laws and IMHO no one is encouraging anyone to break any laws or saying they have a right to. Seems like that should be manageable even in this knee-jerk town.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-84644086455240612152013-06-21T20:52:38.160-07:002013-06-21T20:52:38.160-07:00We shouldn't penalize all beach users -- just ...We shouldn't penalize all beach users -- just the firework-shooting buffoons, most of which come from over the hill and make us spend our tax dollars to clean up their messes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-71300338974313991962013-06-21T20:19:16.354-07:002013-06-21T20:19:16.354-07:00Times do change, and not all change is an improvem...Times do change, and not all change is an improvement. People, however, are pretty consistent in the range of behavior they exhibit in a given setting. At the beach, most are respectful and responsible, as they should be, but some are not. To penalize all lawful beach users, particularly on the 4th, for the less than ideal behavior of a few, is heavy-handed and the worse kind of public policy. To have public works and volunteers (particularly those who benefit from the event) cleaning up after events is neither unreasonable nor an extravagance. Active enforcement of the law is of course also a part of making it work.<br />I genuinely hope the compromise holds up to the road-test. That really would be awesome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-55240494605227424732013-06-21T19:14:42.794-07:002013-06-21T19:14:42.794-07:00"Anonymous 11:17pm said...
"Of course no... "Anonymous 11:17pm said...<br />"Of course no one is in favor of litter and we all know what a costly eyesore it is, but that's not the point. Council can certainly order the beach cleaned up by city workers and volunteers and aggressively enforce the littering laws. They should make it a year-around priority. However, they should avoid being so uber politically correct that they deprive residents and visitors of a wonderful 4th of July experience at LMBeach because of a vocal minority. The majority of the celebrants have a good time and do no damage. These are not people who are heard from at council meetings, but their viewpoint is just as valid as that of the person who opposes this use of the beach. Council needs to keep that in mind."<br /><br />Times change, and sometimes for the better. First, having city workers and volunteers clean the beaches shouldn't be necessary; people should clean up after themselves. What some think is their right is against the law. Second, supportive of safe and sane fireworks sale and use. Not supportive of polluting our environment and hurting habitat. Nothing wrong with establishing some appropriate boundaries. <br /><br />The decision for the changes to the ordinance were recommended by a diverse group of Pacificans who were able to C O M P R O M I S E. Awesome. More (on all sides) should try it. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-13459726470821776612013-06-20T23:17:48.286-07:002013-06-20T23:17:48.286-07:00@1003 Of course no one is in favor of litter and w...@1003 Of course no one is in favor of litter and we all know what a costly eyesore it is, but that's not the point. Council can certainly order the beach cleaned up by city workers and volunteers and aggressively enforce the littering laws. They should make it a year-around priority. However, they should avoid being so uber politically correct that they deprive residents and visitors of a wonderful 4th of July experience at LMBeach because of a vocal minority. The majority of the celebrants have a good time and do no damage. These are not people who are heard from at council meetings, but their viewpoint is just as valid as that of the person who opposes this use of the beach. Council needs to keep that in mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-20593348835178599712013-06-20T22:03:50.262-07:002013-06-20T22:03:50.262-07:00Anonymous 10:26am said...
"Council will be gu...Anonymous 10:26am said...<br />"Council will be guided by the amount of whining after the holiday by the self-appointed guardians of the beach. Not by the many people who had a good time in Pacifica and did no damage."<br /><br />These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive groups. Visitors and Pacificans who leave litter (fireworks and otherwise) on the beach and elsewhere in our city are breaking the law. <br /><br />From the Don't Trash California website: <br />Q: Is there a fine for littering in California?<br />A: Yes. According to California law, it is a misdemeanor to throw anything from a moving<br />vehicle. The law prohibits littering, as well as throwing lighted cigarettes from a motor<br />vehicle. The penalty for littering is a $1,000 fine. <br /><br />If you don't relate to the environmental impact on our oceans and habitat, you might understand the impact on business and the overall community. <br /><br />From the Keep America Beautiful website: <br />The indirect costs of litter on<br />quality-of-life are considerable.<br />Indirect costs include the degree to which litter reduces<br />the value of real estate, deters a customer from entering a<br />business, or a new employer from locating to a community.<br />To measure these impacts of litter, the 2009 study surveyed<br />homeowners, realtors, and business development<br />officials.<br />• 93% of homeowners say a littered neighborhood<br />would decrease their assessment of a home’s value<br />and influences their decision to purchase a property.<br />And 40% estimated that litter would reduce a home’s value<br />by 10% to 24%.<br />• 36% of business development officials say that litter<br />impacts a decision to locate to a community.<br />• 55% of realtors think that litter reduces property values<br />by about 9%.<br />• 60% of property appraisers would reduce a home’s<br />value if it was littered.<br />• The presence of litter in a community decreases<br />property values by a little over 7%, according to the<br />National Association of Home Builders pricing model.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-60676357056647166982013-06-20T10:26:02.529-07:002013-06-20T10:26:02.529-07:00Council will be guided by the amount of whining af...Council will be guided by the amount of whining after the holiday by the self-appointed guardians of the beach. Not by the many people who had a good time in Pacifica and did no damage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-26046729592862758752013-06-20T07:55:18.378-07:002013-06-20T07:55:18.378-07:00I'm gonna guess that the enforcement of "...I'm gonna guess that the enforcement of "limited beach access" for fireworks will most likely be a fizzle. Good news is that sand apparently doesn't burn; hopefully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-339729750842765092013-06-20T00:57:47.972-07:002013-06-20T00:57:47.972-07:00oops Berkheimer is employed by IEDA not IDEA. Hav...oops Berkheimer is employed by IEDA not IDEA. Have no idea what that stands for. And he is not an attorney. Some IEDA negotiators are and some are not. He gets his direction from council not vice versa and they approve the final result.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-62097113417762228942013-06-20T00:49:09.664-07:002013-06-20T00:49:09.664-07:00I don't know that he's an attorney. He...I don't know that he's an attorney. He's employed by IDEA. They are negotiators and mediators for hire by public and private private employers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-28973443045841686692013-06-19T20:36:32.805-07:002013-06-19T20:36:32.805-07:00Wow a professional union negotiating attorney? We ...Wow a professional union negotiating attorney? We might actually get some real concessions. That's IF council lets him do his job properly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-9155816311358548702013-06-19T17:27:18.787-07:002013-06-19T17:27:18.787-07:00I hope he's anti union. The only way labor neg...I hope he's anti union. The only way labor negotiations work is when two sides have opposite goals. When they both have the same goal you get inflated wages and benefits like we see with government employees in California.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-24801596029464800612013-06-19T15:16:23.785-07:002013-06-19T15:16:23.785-07:00I see we have a new agency negotiator for this rou...I see we have a new agency negotiator for this round. Glenn Berkheimer, hired from a firm that handles union negotiations for private and public employers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com