Hmmmm... the author describes herself as a "geologist", yet I can find nothing by googling her name and the word geology other then some simplistic posts for the Examiner. Well, maybe she's not an academic and doesn't publish, but works in private industry?? Surely she will have a business contact on the web, somewhere? Nada. Well, in California geologists are licensed by the State, easy to check, but alas no one by that name pops up in the license search window. So until we see some bona fides, I'm treating this as some sort of joke perpetrated on the public.
I read the excerpt, how she became entranced by the croaking of the frogs, giddy with the thought of seeing a Red-legged frog! Alas dearie, red-legged frogs don't croak, you were hearing the raucous tree frogs! Perhaps it would be better if you "wrote" about rocks?
Although not nearly as musical as chorus frogs, red-legged frogs do croak (or at least groan). Pacifica's own Carlos Davidson is a leading expert on frog calls - he even has an album of them! Here are some of his recordings of red-legged calls:
Red-legged frogs do croak, but it's a low single croak, like a bullfrog. She says, "Their cacophony was pure symphony!" The high-pitched croaking, like a cacophony, is the Pacific chorus frog.
Not quite - You won't hear red-legged frogs croak like other frog species because they call from beneath the water's surface, I should have made that clear.
The Pacific Chorus Frog is commonly and - I admit it - incorrectly referred to as the Pacific Treefrog or the Pacific Chorus Treefrog, which make it confusing. You are right in that it's not a true treefrog, but many organizations still use the traditional name of treefrog while conceding that the vernacular doesn't have to be an accurate reflection of phylogeny.
"You won't hear red-legged frogs croak like other frog species because they call from beneath the water's surface, I should have made that clear." That's incorrect. They also croak when they are out of the water.
Economic development will take years, maybe a decade or more and hopefully will involve a healthy mix of retail, leisure, rentals (that's where the housing demand has gone), senior housing, services. The days of the big, splashy project are gone unless you live in a town within the urban corridor footprint with easy links to public transit, shopping and work. We don't and we can't spend like we do.
Developers can build an outlet mall in so many other places without the oversight of multiple fed and state agencies. Why would a developer bother with the quarry? Best bet to revitalize Pacifica is to makeover rundown Manor or outdated Linda Mar Center and include outlet shops. Great hiway visibility. It's already retail. Other cities have been known to pursue such realistic, and often do-able development with existing mall owners. Wow, what a concept!
Manor will fall off the cliff, the result of "nothing" and "no money" city policies. And if Linda Mar Shopping Center were proposed as a "build up" private retail improvement (including double-decker parking lot), you would likely be fighting it, and any other semi-significant development for this city.
I'm with Steve on the premium outlet mall, great idea. Put it in the quarry, the entire Bay Area will shop there. Studies and regulation will happen professionally without your advance curse. And the positive outcome for some in-town cheap and poor hippies: jobs and looking good.
Clarification: my 958 comment was primarily addressed to Anons 844 and 949, unless it also applies to you (those who have worked so hard to flub sustainable economic development in Pacifica).
Premium Outlet mall excellent idea. Working with existing crappy shopping centers also excellent idea. It ain't rocket science. Combining outlets with a revamped shopping center could be incredible for this town. Hundreds of regular jobs. Lots of visitors, etc. But no, let's not look at all the possibilities when we can chase that cursed quarry fantasy down the nearest sewer lateral. Being our own worst enemy is what this town is famous for.
If people are willing to drive all the way to outlet malls in Gilroy, Vacaville, Petaluma, and Napa, they're going to come to one in Pacifica. They sure ain't coming to hike trails.
If the land in the quarry is cheap enough, an outlet mall will come. Putting a few outlet stores in the existing shopping centers isn't going to attract anyone.
We can remodel Pacific Manor and Linda Mar 'til the cows come home, but they're still both too small to generate the revenues this city needs to operate.
The Hippie Creed seems to be - "This is Pacifica. We Can't Do It."
Sinai if that's what you're going with I'd say, depends what it is. I think the real Pacifica credo is "You're not the boss of me". Cuts across all socio-economic groups and captures so well the petulance of Pacificans.
Let's hope those shrewd shopping center owners at LM or Manor decide to do more with their Pacifica assets all on their own. They're actually in the business to make money and they could do so much more with LM or Manor. So much more! Tunnel opens, more cars, etc. Let's just leave them to their own money-making devices and stay out of the way. Let their nature take its course.
Let's hope those shrewd [quarry] owners decide to do more with their Pacifica assets all on their own. They're actually in the business to make money and they could do so much more with [the quarry]. So much more! Tunnel opens, more cars, etc. Let's just leave them to their own money-making devices and stay out of the way. Let their nature take its course.
Yeah, they're the latest in a string of suckers who either bought or got stuck with the quarry. Any doubts that the quarry is a lemon? Just look at what all the shrewd owners with their world-class expertise have done with it. Wow! It's a litter box. Meanwhile, the shopping centers, particularly Linda Mar, continue to make money for very shrewd, profit-driven owners. Even now. If it's a sound business idea, they will find a way to make more from their very real assets and coincidentally more jobs and tax revenue for this city. Don't know of any plans in the works but wouldn't it be nice if they decide to take it to the next level real soon. Back at the quarry...well we can't even make lemonade out of that one but this is Fix Pacifica and it is Christmas time so go ahead, leave those cookies out.
Quarry redevelopment thinking, planning and expense has been invested and vested by the city over 26 years. City council has been the paid Redevelopment Agency management and oversight committee.
The quarry is zoned commercial, retail, residential mixed-use, City documents link. There are 2 plans viewable: 1) Rockaway Specific Plan which includes commercial, retail (1985); and, 2) The 5 Year Implementation Plan 2010-2014 which includes 310 residential low cost, affordable units (2009).
Combined, these 2 plans are similar to the private mixed-use development measures brought to the public in 2002 and 2006, which FMV suffered trustee failure by Councilmembers Vreeland, DeJarnatt, Digre, Lancelle, 2006, Vreeland, DeJarnatt 2002. Example text from the Rockaway Specific Plan with no further amendment, 3/1986, page 8: "The overall goal of this plan is to stimulate and attract quality private investment in this area thereby improving the City's economic health and tax base while strengthening the overall image and attractiveness of the area." Further, IMO these councilmembers worked against these quarry redevelopment projects. Thus, quarry redevelopment has become another city loss. (Life of the redevelopment agency was 35 years, time-passed is 26 years, redevelopment termination 2021 (9 years hence). Millions of dollars, services, maintenance, improvements lost to this city. But, credit is due, Todd (1135), the real "brainiacs" are those who have worked a long-term strategy to sink this city (including those city councilmembers mentioned by name).
I'm looking forward to reading Juanita Mercado's book and learning from her 2 year geological/biological Sharp Park Golf Course area research. I'm hopeful that the financial weakness and subsequent lack of reasoned political clout of this city will not next lose us the golf course.
City council members are paid, and it is only sometime this year that they have not been paid an an extra $35 per very few redevelopment meetings.
The core issue is "do the right thing", they did not do that with regard to significant balanced city development. That's why this city continues to financially deteriorate.
Since your comment is Anonymous, so is mine to you. Kathy
NIMBY's and their hold on Council is the only reason the Quarry has failed to launch. Any other Northern California coastal town with this much contiguous ocean front land zoned for redevelopment would have "made hay" two decades ago. We would be a clean, safe and prosperous town instead of the dilapidated shanty we've become.
So the smug arbiters of Pacifica have ruled .... get over your romantic dreams of a beautiful, clean, safe and prosperous coastal town. sic semper tyrannis
I'm not so fond of "sic semper tyrannis" because it's a saying favored by assassins like Brutus and John Wilkes Booth. One that more honestly describes our situation in Pacifica is "deos enim religuos accepimus, Caesares dedimus" which means "the gods were handed down to us, but we've created the Caesars ourselves".
Hmmmm... the author describes herself as a "geologist", yet I can find nothing by googling her name and the word geology other then some simplistic posts for the Examiner. Well, maybe she's not an academic and doesn't publish, but works in private industry?? Surely she will have a business contact on the web, somewhere? Nada. Well, in California geologists are licensed by the State, easy to check, but alas no one by that name pops up in the license search window. So until we see some bona fides, I'm treating this as some sort of joke perpetrated on the public.
ReplyDeleteI read the excerpt, how she became entranced by the croaking of the frogs, giddy with the thought of seeing a Red-legged frog! Alas dearie, red-legged frogs don't croak, you were hearing the raucous tree frogs! Perhaps it would be better if you "wrote" about rocks?
I bet she's a consultant. The city will probably hire her as a consultant on, hmmm let me see, oh yes,
ReplyDeleteparking.
I believe she's retired.
ReplyDeleteAlthough not nearly as musical as chorus frogs, red-legged frogs do croak (or at least groan). Pacifica's own Carlos Davidson is a leading expert on frog calls - he even has an album of them! Here are some of his recordings of red-legged calls:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.californiaherps.com/frogs/pages/r.draytonii.sounds.html
Red-legged frogs do croak, but it's a low single croak, like a bullfrog. She says, "Their cacophony was pure symphony!" The high-pitched croaking, like a cacophony, is the Pacific chorus frog.
ReplyDeleteNot quite - You won't hear red-legged frogs croak like other frog species because they call from beneath the water's surface, I should have made that clear.
ReplyDeleteThe Pacific Chorus Frog is commonly and - I admit it - incorrectly referred to as the Pacific Treefrog or the Pacific Chorus Treefrog, which make it confusing. You are right in that it's not a true treefrog, but many organizations still use the traditional name of treefrog while conceding that the vernacular doesn't have to be an accurate reflection of phylogeny.
"You won't hear red-legged frogs croak like other frog species because they call from beneath the water's surface, I should have made that clear." That's incorrect. They also croak when they are out of the water.
ReplyDeleteSo many experts on frogs.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know how to run a city for human inhabitants?
No, not this city.
ReplyDeleteGive up your fantasy of rapid, large-scale economic development. It was never going to happen and it never will. Focus on living within your means.
ReplyDeleteYes, lots of ability and backbone in Pacifica, although those qualities seem quite rare at City Hall.
ReplyDeleteLive within your means AND increase revenues by economic development. It's not one or the other.
ReplyDeleteYes, economic development. But it will take several years and it won't be one huge project.
ReplyDeleteOther than the frog experts, has anyone ever seen a red legged frog in "the wild" ?
ReplyDeleteYes, I've seen red-legged frogs in the wild.
ReplyDeleteEconomic development will take years, maybe a decade or more and hopefully will involve a healthy mix of retail, leisure, rentals (that's where the housing demand has gone), senior housing, services. The days of the big, splashy project are gone unless you live in a town within the urban corridor footprint with easy links to public transit, shopping and work.
ReplyDeleteWe don't and we can't spend like we do.
A premium outlet mall in the quarry. That's what we need.
ReplyDeleteThat's never gonna happen. Location, location, location.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't a Rand McNally online contest, and you can't just keep repeating things to make them happen.
ReplyDeleteDevelopers can build an outlet mall in so many other places without the oversight of multiple fed and state agencies. Why would a developer bother with the quarry? Best bet to revitalize Pacifica is to makeover rundown Manor or outdated Linda Mar Center and include outlet shops. Great hiway visibility. It's already retail. Other cities have been known to pursue such realistic, and often do-able development with existing mall owners. Wow, what a concept!
ReplyDelete"makeover rundown Manor or outdated Linda Mar Center and include outlet shops." What an excellent idea!
ReplyDeleteManor will fall off the cliff, the result of "nothing" and "no money" city policies. And if Linda Mar Shopping Center were proposed as a "build up" private retail improvement (including double-decker parking lot), you would likely be fighting it, and any other semi-significant development for this city.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Steve on the premium outlet mall, great idea. Put it in the quarry, the entire Bay Area will shop there. Studies and regulation will happen professionally without your advance curse. And the positive outcome for some in-town cheap and poor hippies: jobs and looking good.
Clarification: my 958 comment was primarily addressed to Anons 844 and 949, unless it also applies to you (those who have worked so hard to flub sustainable economic development in Pacifica).
ReplyDeletePremium Outlet mall excellent idea. Working with existing crappy shopping centers also excellent idea. It ain't rocket science. Combining outlets with a revamped shopping center could be incredible for this town. Hundreds of regular jobs. Lots of visitors, etc. But no, let's not look at all the possibilities when we can chase that cursed quarry fantasy down the nearest sewer lateral. Being our own worst enemy is what this town is famous for.
ReplyDeleteIf people are willing to drive all the way to outlet malls in Gilroy, Vacaville, Petaluma, and Napa, they're going to come to one in Pacifica. They sure ain't coming to hike trails.
ReplyDeleteIf the land in the quarry is cheap enough, an outlet mall will come. Putting a few outlet stores in the existing shopping centers isn't going to attract anyone.
We can remodel Pacific Manor and Linda Mar 'til the cows come home, but they're still both too small to generate the revenues this city needs to operate.
The Hippie Creed seems to be - "This is Pacifica. We Can't Do It."
Sinai if that's what you're going with I'd say, depends what it is. I think the real Pacifica credo is "You're not the boss of me". Cuts across all socio-economic groups and captures so well the petulance of Pacificans.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope those shrewd shopping center owners at LM or Manor decide to do more with their Pacifica assets all on their own. They're actually in the business to make money and they could do so much more with LM or Manor. So much more! Tunnel opens, more cars, etc. Let's just leave them to their own money-making devices and stay out of the way. Let their nature take its course.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope those shrewd [quarry] owners decide to do more with their Pacifica assets all on their own. They're actually in the business to make money and they could do so much more with [the quarry]. So much more! Tunnel opens, more cars, etc. Let's just leave them to their own money-making devices and stay out of the way. Let their nature take its course.
ReplyDeleteHehehe, shrewd quarry owners. Yeah... major brainiacs.
ReplyDeleteYeah, they're the latest in a string of suckers who either bought or got stuck with the quarry. Any doubts that the quarry is a lemon? Just look at what all the shrewd owners with their world-class expertise have done with it. Wow! It's a litter box. Meanwhile, the shopping centers, particularly Linda Mar, continue to make money for very shrewd, profit-driven owners. Even now. If it's a sound business idea, they will find a way to make more from their very real assets and coincidentally more jobs and tax revenue for this city. Don't know of any plans in the works but wouldn't it be nice if they decide to take it to the next level real soon. Back at the quarry...well we can't even make lemonade out of that one but this is Fix Pacifica and it is Christmas time so go ahead, leave those cookies out.
ReplyDeleteQuarry redevelopment thinking, planning and expense has been invested and vested by the city over 26 years. City council has been the paid Redevelopment Agency management and oversight committee.
ReplyDeleteThe quarry is zoned commercial, retail, residential mixed-use, City documents link. There are 2 plans viewable: 1) Rockaway Specific Plan which includes commercial, retail (1985); and, 2) The 5 Year Implementation Plan 2010-2014 which includes 310 residential low cost, affordable units (2009).
Combined, these 2 plans are similar to the private mixed-use development measures brought to the public in 2002 and 2006, which FMV suffered trustee failure by Councilmembers Vreeland, DeJarnatt, Digre, Lancelle, 2006, Vreeland, DeJarnatt 2002. Example text from the Rockaway Specific Plan with no further amendment, 3/1986, page 8: "The overall goal of this plan is to stimulate and attract quality private investment in this area thereby improving the City's economic health and tax base while strengthening the overall image and attractiveness of the area." Further, IMO these councilmembers worked against these quarry redevelopment projects. Thus, quarry redevelopment has become another city loss. (Life of the redevelopment agency was 35 years, time-passed is 26 years, redevelopment termination 2021 (9 years hence). Millions of dollars, services, maintenance, improvements lost to this city. But, credit is due, Todd (1135), the real "brainiacs" are those who have worked a long-term strategy to sink this city (including those city councilmembers mentioned by name).
I'm looking forward to reading Juanita Mercado's book and learning from her 2 year geological/biological Sharp Park Golf Course area research. I'm hopeful that the financial weakness and subsequent lack of reasoned political clout of this city will not next lose us the golf course.
City Council members do not get paid for being the Redevelopment Agency.
ReplyDeleteCity council members are paid, and it is only sometime this year that they have not been paid an an extra $35 per very few redevelopment meetings.
ReplyDeleteThe core issue is "do the right thing", they did not do that with regard to significant balanced city development. That's why this city continues to financially deteriorate.
Since your comment is Anonymous, so is mine to you. Kathy
NIMBY's and their hold on Council is the only reason the Quarry has failed to launch.
ReplyDeleteAny other Northern California coastal town with this much contiguous ocean front land zoned for redevelopment would have "made hay" two decades ago. We would be a clean, safe and prosperous town instead of the dilapidated shanty we've become.
"NIMBY's and their hold on Council is the only reason the Quarry has failed to launch."
ReplyDeleteNope, wrong again.
Wow, very reasoned argument, Anon@6:29
ReplyDeleteVreelamd, Lancelle, DeJarnatt, Digre. They saved this city from prosperity.
ReplyDeleteMikey-Pooh, you are such a romantic.
ReplyDeleteIt was equally well reasoned as Mike Bell's argument.
ReplyDeleteRomantic as in fanciful, impractical, unrealistic?
ReplyDeleteYes, but don't you find his steadfast resolve oddly comforting in this uncertain world we live in?
Ok, it's a tie.
ReplyDeleteSo the smug arbiters of Pacifica have ruled ....
ReplyDeleteget over your romantic dreams of a beautiful, clean, safe and prosperous coastal town.
sic semper tyrannis
I'm not so fond of "sic semper tyrannis" because it's a saying favored by assassins like Brutus and John Wilkes Booth. One that more honestly describes our situation in Pacifica is "deos enim religuos accepimus, Caesares dedimus" which means "the gods were handed down to us, but we've created the Caesars
ReplyDeleteourselves".