tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post5129818669912546475..comments2023-11-28T20:40:14.193-08:00Comments on Fix Pacifica: Chris Fogel's take on why Measure V lostFix Pacificahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14451072441256706977noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-37059425566668663182013-11-20T21:04:06.755-08:002013-11-20T21:04:06.755-08:00@5 that's brilliant. we can all find opinions ...@5 that's brilliant. we can all find opinions to support our opinion. it's still only an opinion, just like fogel's piece. <br /><br />what's really bothering you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-40539523245750501892013-11-20T20:59:09.810-08:002013-11-20T20:59:09.810-08:00I find it ironic that someone so eager to intrude ...I find it ironic that someone so eager to intrude on the privacy of the American voting booth, is doing so anonymously? Sometimes. Of course I make this observation as an anonymous, but still, this is some pretty funny shit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-91713363974570086012013-11-20T18:46:58.025-08:002013-11-20T18:46:58.025-08:00It's a blog, people. Get over it.
Witch-hunti...It's a blog, people. Get over it.<br /><br />Witch-hunting whether someone voted a certain way rather than discussing their point of view is exactly what's wrong both locally and nationally.<br /><br />Only children and ideologues refuse to compromise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-8465552075844430102013-11-20T18:22:20.597-08:002013-11-20T18:22:20.597-08:00I read lots of opinion pieces every day that are w...I read lots of opinion pieces every day that are written by people who don't declare their political leanings. <br /><br />There's nothing unethical about it.Steve Sinainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-69318023679648933112013-11-20T17:00:53.542-08:002013-11-20T17:00:53.542-08:00To write an opinion piece and not declare your lea...To write an opinion piece and not declare your leanings is to not be honest and transparent with your readers. It is journalistically unethical. <br /><br />"The responsibility should be on journalists to explain why they aren’t telling us for whom they vote, rather than claiming it’s a private matter that would only open them up to dismissal by partisan players or exclusion by politicians who don’t believe they’ll receive a fair hearing" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/15/journalists-should-declare-voteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-66276270811366362022013-11-19T22:03:36.753-08:002013-11-19T22:03:36.753-08:00IMO Tom always followed his conscience which is pr...IMO Tom always followed his conscience which is probably why he's off the PC. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-77130763962668042272013-11-19T21:52:22.079-08:002013-11-19T21:52:22.079-08:00Whether Tom was angry or not isn't the issue, ...Whether Tom was angry or not isn't the issue, the point is that as a free agent he could follow his conscience in a way he might not have as a PC. <br /><br />Likewise Celeste Langille certainly wouldn't have been the lead lawyer suing the city if she were on the PC.<br /> <br />The PC shakeup released some powerful unintended consequences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-76528920771648272342013-11-19T19:42:54.465-08:002013-11-19T19:42:54.465-08:00547, if Einstein made the comment about "doin...547, if Einstein made the comment about "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" in isolation he made a mistake. <br /><br />Improved performance and quality frequently occur from "doing the same thing over and over again". What happens in the process is craftsmanship, perseverance, breakthrough inspiration, creativity and sometimes brilliance. Einstein himself worked on some theorems forever during his lifetime. <br /><br />Thus, the quote linked to Einstein is only partially correct. But repeating the same mantra over and over in isolation is really nuts! Think about it.Kathy Meehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14000878422176050692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-14577958101518927362013-11-19T18:34:11.712-08:002013-11-19T18:34:11.712-08:00Not what pay cut fans want to hear, but SJ has jus...Not what pay cut fans want to hear, but SJ has just decided to give cops a 10% catch-up raise phased in over 2 years plus a 2% immediate bonus. It'll restore them to their 2009 pay levels before SJ made deep cuts to stay afloat. The city acknowledges they can't afford to do this and it will cause cuts in other areas, but they have lost too many officers to higher-paying organizations. And the cops union is tougher than some others. This catch-up stuff is going to be real popular. Wonder if Pacifica is already doing it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-72883474428407405772013-11-19T18:20:47.686-08:002013-11-19T18:20:47.686-08:00547 Say what? You think this is the best we can do...547 Say what? You think this is the best we can do? Now that's depressing. Let's keep the focus on results and improving Pacifica and continue to look for people who can get it done. There are bound to be false starts and even false prophets along the way. We owe them nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-66455635147107949992013-11-19T17:47:04.010-08:002013-11-19T17:47:04.010-08:00So is the answer to get rid of the counsel and rep...So is the answer to get rid of the counsel and replace them? With who? They may not be perfect but they are the closest thing we have had to a real counsel in 20 years. You guys want to go back to the days of Loeb and Vreeland? Or do you want work with the group you got? Einstein said that the defection of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It seems that many of you are determined to prove him a liar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-9759813103138101492013-11-19T16:57:14.023-08:002013-11-19T16:57:14.023-08:00Tom your actions speak louder than anything others...Tom your actions speak louder than anything others may say. Your sincere effort in trying to convince council to protect low income people in measure V are unquestionable and on the record. Hutchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-52516626205102042002013-11-19T16:19:28.231-08:002013-11-19T16:19:28.231-08:00I'll tell you who they were mean to. The poor ...I'll tell you who they were mean to. The poor little old labor unions. You dared to call them out for milking the taxpayer and funding the yes on V folks. How dare you be so mean and actually say we should cut wages. Meanies. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-51648443190144482962013-11-19T14:57:06.216-08:002013-11-19T14:57:06.216-08:00Steve it was the latter.
I tried repeatedly to g...Steve it was the latter. <br /><br />I tried repeatedly to get Council <br />to make the changes needed to the UUT so that it could be seen as a fair tax on all the users. A tax I could both vote for and support.<br /><br />1. At the stakeholders meeting I pointed out that the proposed tax was unfair to the truly needy, while favoring people like me who had the means to pay and the good luck to get old. <br /><br />2. I also pointed out that if the tax on Businesses was going to be capped that the tax on resident of Pacifica should also be capped. <br />(I know Council and the yes campaign both said that no user could possible reach the cap, but remember Council crack open the original PG&E UUT to link the $500 business Cap to the new phone UUT. Council could have done the same for everyone they just made the choice not to.)<br /><br />I also reach out to individual Council members and shared my concerns.<br /><br />Finally I spoke at the City Council meeting the night the measure was adopted, Repeating the message that they needed to make this tax fairer.<br /><br />opposing Measure V was not an easy decision, and certainly not one made in anger. <br /> Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-10282092817698290152013-11-19T14:40:31.520-08:002013-11-19T14:40:31.520-08:00Oh Fogel, please don't sweat the small stuff. ...Oh Fogel, please don't sweat the small stuff. The people who would demand your voting record and bristle at remarks they clearly take personally, are always with us. They'd benefit from a good old Jesuit class in critical thinking and a stern Aunt Emily to teach them how to disagree without being disagreeable. Mea maxima culpa for saying that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-68668964791230990212013-11-19T14:17:35.989-08:002013-11-19T14:17:35.989-08:00We're all human and should have enough empathy...We're all human and should have enough empathy to understand how Tom could be angry when he was not reappointed to the PC. Might have been part of his motivation to go public against V. He is a fair-minded man, and, IMHO, it was also the lack of means testing that pissed him off. Add in the puzzling way this council rushed the roll out and you've got a lot of motivation to oppose a hot mess of a measure. Our very own micromini-Obamacare scandal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-60680840542492633502013-11-19T13:49:32.213-08:002013-11-19T13:49:32.213-08:00Can anyone please show me where our campaign demon...Can anyone please show me where our campaign demonized anyone on the yes side? Yes it was a tough fight. We were up against a well funded effort. Yes we criticized the yes campaign organizers for statements such as the ones made at the debate about having two budgets. That's far from demonizing or personal attacks. We did what we did by telling the truth and presenting facts. If that hurt peoples feelings then so be it. But don't call it bullying or childish to stand up and say no that's not true. Whatever we did sure did not cause voters to turn off to our message. So go ahead and armchair quarter back. Just sounds like sour grapes. I wouldn't do anything differently.Hutchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-57431178252902425492013-11-19T12:34:05.795-08:002013-11-19T12:34:05.795-08:00Chris seemed a lot harsher toward the Yes side in ...Chris seemed a lot harsher toward the Yes side in his analysis. I'll guess he voted no.<br /><br />I have to admit, I also wondered how much of Tom's motivation for leading the charge against V was his removal from the Planning Commission. It could have been revenge, or it could have been that by being off the Planning Commission, he felt free to do what he believed in. Or both. Or neither.Steve Sinainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-4809736050728744372013-11-19T12:14:55.997-08:002013-11-19T12:14:55.997-08:00Excellent point, Chris. If the only way you can wi...Excellent point, Chris. If the only way you can win your argument is by demonizing your opponent, then you are no better than a tea party wingnut, regardless of the outcome.<br /><br />There are people on both sides of this (and most) local issues who need to learn a little civility, because the city benefits when people are able to disagree without being disagreeable. It's my experience that better results occur when "compromise" is not considered a dirty word.Scottynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-38598750876602578062013-11-19T10:10:03.242-08:002013-11-19T10:10:03.242-08:00(cross-posted to Riptide)
I accept and acknowledg...(cross-posted to Riptide)<br /><br />I accept and acknowledge the criticisms and shortcomings of my piece. <br /><br />In writing my editorial & analysis, I did my best to keep the discussion about the campaign & tactics--as I perceived them--and to avoid a discussion of the individuals involved. To this end, I avoided naming the private individuals working on either side of the campaign.<br /><br />It was a fine line to straddle--and may not have even been possible. Despite my efforts, I hurt some feelings which was not my intent. I assure you that I was (and am) aware that good people worked on both sides of the issues and I tried my best to respect this; however, I feel that we as a community benefit from examining what happened and learning from the mistakes made.<br /><br />Pacifica cannot keep repeating the same mistakes again and again and expect that the results will be any different the next time those same mistakes are made. In order to move forward, we must have some unity of purpose and agree upon some direction. I feel that the developing Communications Plan and the hiring of our new City Manager, Lorie Tinfow, lays the groundwork for this possibility and I am encouraged by it.<br /><br />As for my characterization of the No campaign (largely positive, by the way) I'll let the comments posted by its members both here and on Riptide speak for themselves. Readers are free to compare them with my thoughts and determine if I'm completely off base. Chris Fogelhttp://www.pacificaindex.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-30391313471868003672013-11-19T09:24:57.477-08:002013-11-19T09:24:57.477-08:00I strongly disagree with Chris on his opinion that...I strongly disagree with Chris on his opinion that our side was vengeful, childish or bullies. He should tell us what side he was on so we can take his commentary with the proper salt. Or I'll take his silence to mean he was in favor of this tax.Hutchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-76486328163797229122013-11-18T20:43:50.698-08:002013-11-18T20:43:50.698-08:00Look out Chris Fogel, sounds like someone is riled...Look out Chris Fogel, sounds like someone is riled up, and feeling unappreciated. Next, you'll be called a NIMBY. In this country how you voted or even if you voted is no one's business. <br /><br />Thanks for what you do for the community and for doing it so well. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-60476459148566362342013-11-18T13:37:03.322-08:002013-11-18T13:37:03.322-08:00A lot of arm chair QBing here. V lost, get over it...A lot of arm chair QBing here. V lost, get over it. What hurt or helped the "no" campaign is your opinion. And everyone knows what opinions are like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-63895438532738693712013-11-18T13:29:20.855-08:002013-11-18T13:29:20.855-08:00So Chris as long as you're giving your opinion...So Chris as long as you're giving your opinion please tell us how you voted on V?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-6485726472996925872013-11-18T12:58:40.514-08:002013-11-18T12:58:40.514-08:00Fogel, some folk aren't going to be happy til ...Fogel, some folk aren't going to be happy til you roll the credits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com