tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post1724159178875545436..comments2023-11-28T20:40:14.193-08:00Comments on Fix Pacifica: New Planning Commissioners soon appointedFix Pacificahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14451072441256706977noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-45988841616366509662013-06-10T23:52:15.307-07:002013-06-10T23:52:15.307-07:003 lawyers, 1 contractor/lawyer, 1 realtor, 1 start...3 lawyers, 1 contractor/lawyer, 1 realtor, 1 start-up CFO and what the hell does Evans do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-20832812682106520252013-06-10T23:38:13.075-07:002013-06-10T23:38:13.075-07:00Anonymous 10:41 P.M. When the applicant has a hear...Anonymous 10:41 P.M. When the applicant has a hearing before the City Council they pay for all staff time City Attorney included. That even applies to when someone appeals a Planning Commission decision. The appellant pays $100.00 dollars and the applicant pays for everything else. That why I have been asking for the fee to appeal a P.C. decision to be raised to account for inflation over the last 20 + years since the fee was put in place. Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-82548362583287072022013-06-10T22:51:25.877-07:002013-06-10T22:51:25.877-07:00council added 1 realtor, 1 contractor and 1 attorn...council added 1 realtor, 1 contractor and 1 attorney to the planning commission hohumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-80539307345987681952013-06-10T22:41:37.211-07:002013-06-10T22:41:37.211-07:00Honoring their stated commitment to create a Plann...Honoring their stated commitment to create a Planning Commission with balance, the preservation of institutional knowledge and an accurate reflection of this community, the city council in one balloting re-appointed Brown, Campbell, Evans and Gordon and added newbies Cooper, Nibbelin, and Vaterlaus.<br /><br />Zombie apocalypse?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-85425746085271238612013-06-10T18:56:27.055-07:002013-06-10T18:56:27.055-07:00Did the city ever charge extra in the past for the...Did the city ever charge extra in the past for the city attorney to be at the meetings? Then it's a new fee. We don't need that.<br /><br />Good suggestion though Tom. But you're right, it shouldn't matter to you who pays for it. So why suggest the applicant pay? Nobody is asked to pay at council meetings. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-41040890549154189442013-06-10T16:24:16.819-07:002013-06-10T16:24:16.819-07:00Yup, way back in the day you'd see the city at...Yup, way back in the day you'd see the city attorney there. Then for a long time the only attorneys present were the EPA attorneys appointed to the commission or other attorney-appointees with similar ideologies also on the commish. Go figure. The thing changed quietly, appointment by appointment. Now the excuse for meeting without the city attorney is no money. That works, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-16782483631039355462013-06-10T15:12:13.562-07:002013-06-10T15:12:13.562-07:00Hutch as a General contractor in my day job I unde...Hutch as a General contractor in my day job I understand very well both the benefits of new Development and the impact of planning fees, that is why I proposed that the applicant have the OPTION of having the City attorney present to advise the Planning Commission on legal issues. this could save a Developer both time and money and get us to a finished project that much sooner. I personally don't care who pays for the time I just know that it will have to be paid for. <br /><br />As far as this being something new, for the longest time the City Attorney was required to be at Planning Commission meetings. <br /><br />City of Pacifica Handbook for Commission Members. <br />Under the heading City Attorney.<br /><br /> "The City Attorney attends City Council and Planning Commission meetings to provided legal advice and provides legal advice to other City commissions,committees and advisory groups as needed."Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-82221380555756393792013-06-10T13:33:49.659-07:002013-06-10T13:33:49.659-07:00Tom, you are talking about adding a new fee.
A ba...Tom, you are talking about adding a new fee.<br /><br />A balanced budget is very important. This city has been in serious trouble for a long time partly due to very little new development. The city finds plenty of money for studies and reports. I'm sure they can pay the city attorney for an hour here and there without cutting some other service.<br /><br />As someone else pointed out, do you understand that new development increases our tax revenue, employs people, draws in visitors? I think we need commissioners that understand this and don't try to make it even more difficult to build here by adding new fees.Hutchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-68227705330382026392013-06-10T13:13:58.370-07:002013-06-10T13:13:58.370-07:00O'Neill probably beat Campbell on name recogni...O'Neill probably beat Campbell on name recognition alone. That's what counts. Most voters are not on Fix or Riptide. They're in the vast uninformed, disinterested majority. Name recognition counts with them. So he's elected but wish as hard as you want, O'Neill isn't in lock-step with Stone and Nihart. Not at all. Where it's going to get interesting is tonight with the PC reshuffle. Mumbles Ervin could actually be the key. If Nihart and Stone have the balls to lead the revolution, they've got an almost certain 3rd vote in Ervin. Could we see realtors on the PC? Oh my! I hope it's Villasenor, Spano, M. Brown, and maybe Nibbelin. Let's develop some candidates for council in 2014 and 2016.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-47756511613756222752013-06-10T11:07:21.987-07:002013-06-10T11:07:21.987-07:00Anonymous 6:00 P.M. Yes I do understand that TAX G...Anonymous 6:00 P.M. Yes I do understand that TAX GENERATING PROJECT could bring in more money then the cost of having a City Attorney at a Planning Commission meeting. I also understand that those revenues will happen some time in the future while the attorneys services must be paid for now.<br /><br />I take from your comment that you would be willing to ether Pay more taxes or receive fewer services to make this happen. You after all are the city. Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-31781400715520877332013-06-10T10:51:14.682-07:002013-06-10T10:51:14.682-07:00Steve It is not a case of the Planning Commission ...Steve It is not a case of the Planning Commission not doing it's job but a case of does the Planning Commission have the tools to do the job efficiently. As for who should bear the burden of paying for any services the applicant may use in the coarse of getting his project approved that is up to the City Council. What I said before and will restate now is that the City Council by law must have a balance budget it can reduce or wave fees but it has to find other ways of paying for the services provided. That can be by cutting other expenses or raising revenue(taxes). Any decision to wave or reduces planning fees could include expected future tax revenues. This is all up to the City Council. Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-35165500848093315652013-06-09T23:43:40.213-07:002013-06-09T23:43:40.213-07:00654/836 sure. awesome analysis.654/836 sure. awesome analysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-40270350095746565342013-06-09T20:36:50.730-07:002013-06-09T20:36:50.730-07:00Very well put anon @ 6:54
So with all the environ...Very well put anon @ 6:54<br /><br />So with all the environmental radicals, anti progress and NIMBY's all concentrating on their one and only candidate they lost by a landslide even though there were to pro growthers O'Neill & Spano splitting the vote.<br /><br />That is very meaningful and it says the enviro nimby's have lost any power they once had. It says people are sick of them and their stagnant agenda. <br />Hutchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-14335435801036072572013-06-09T18:54:46.563-07:002013-06-09T18:54:46.563-07:00What don't you understand, anon @ 2:53? Let me...What don't you understand, anon @ 2:53? Let me try and make it very simple for you:<br /><br />- There was one NIMBY candidate: Campbell.<br />- Presumably all of the NIMBYs would at least cast a vote for that person (completely disregarding their other vote, which they didn't need to use if they so desired).<br />- Even with all the NIMBYs focused on one candidate, Campbell could not win.<br />- Even though the presence of numerous non-NIMBY candidates would have presumably diluted the sensible vote, Campbell could not win.<br />- This is very good for Pacifica.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-46008228170257933932013-06-09T18:00:24.333-07:002013-06-09T18:00:24.333-07:00Tom you say "The City can wave or reduces fee...Tom you say "The City can wave or reduces fees if they so choose but when they do that the real cost to the city does not go away."<br /><br />Tom you do understand that tax generating projects bring much more money into this town than any small amount tax payers would have to pay for the city attorney?<br /><br />This attitude is not what we need on the PC. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-42937769614343696542013-06-09T14:40:13.413-07:002013-06-09T14:40:13.413-07:00City attorneys are there to keep an eye on council...City attorneys are there to keep an eye on council and keep them out of trouble, or try to. Issues are complicated and have long-reaching consequences. Planning Commission and applicants deserve the same city funded consideration and it would be helpful to the process. It also seems that with several attorneys on the commission, the people/applicants deserve a reasonable chance at an even playing field.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-16724017239493653202013-06-09T14:35:04.053-07:002013-06-09T14:35:04.053-07:00So when they voted for Campbell the 4037 voters we...So when they voted for Campbell the 4037 voters were Nimbys and when they cast their other 2 votes for Ervin, Nihart or even Vellone they were "sensible". Does that transformation happen at a cellular level? Reversible? Seriously, IMHO what it really says about voters is that rarely are they single-minded idealogues. They pick and choose from candidates for a wide variety of reasons, sometimes conflicting reasons. Particularly true in local elections. Drawing longterm conclusions and predicting behavior from these results may not be very meaningful. It's exhilarating, but not meaningful. The next couple of elections will tell a more complete story. I'll believe we're in true recovery if "sensible" keeps winning and if those we elect deliver change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-49377211763777063322013-06-09T11:39:59.073-07:002013-06-09T11:39:59.073-07:00"At the very least the applicant should be gi..."At the very least the applicant should be given the option of paying for the City Attorney to be present so as to insure that his project is not delayed for lack of timely information."<br /><br />Tom, this is exactly the attitude that makes me think the whole planning commission needs to be replaced. Too many on the planning commission think applicants have unlimited amounts of money and time. Why should the applicant bear the burden of making sure the planning commission does its job?<br /><br />The planning commission is a city agency, and it's up to the city to make sure its commissions and agencies perform competently.<br /><br />The city already throws up too many obstacles to development. That's why people have given up on building here, and why so many planning commission meetings end up cancelled for lack of anything to discuss.Steve Sinainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-67904097033927487002013-06-09T10:46:32.010-07:002013-06-09T10:46:32.010-07:00The NIMBY vote was focused on a single candidate, ...The NIMBY vote was focused on a single candidate, while the sensible vote was diluted and spread across many, but Campbell was still trounced.<br /><br />This is a great sign for the future of this city if the trend continues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-55306428440492499062013-06-09T10:37:51.872-07:002013-06-09T10:37:51.872-07:00"To interpret this result as some divine sign..."To interpret this result as some divine sign of voter rejection of the enviro idealogy is the height of wishful thinking." Anonymous 12:08 AM.<br /><br />Even after all the "our environment is our economy" economic damage has permanently crippled this city, and can never be fixed, some wishes still do come true. Let's revisit those voting numbers for the 2-year City Council position.<br /><br />Richard Campbell 4,037 (NIMBY vote); everyone else 11,127. The NIMBY vote was not even close.<br /><br />And although you did not bother to open the <a href="http://racetracker.shapethefuture.org/summary_results.aspx?iID=71&eID=1&page=2" rel="nofollow">Race Tracker. 11/6/12</a> link I posted 6/8, 3:12 PM, you said of the 4-year city council race: "Maybe a few even went for Vellone". Susan Vellone received 6,779 votes (pro-growth), and that's 2,742 more votes than Richard Campbell (NIMBY).<br /><br />However late, the "divine sign of voter rejection of the enviro idealogy" (your words) is in process. Concern and care of the environment is important, but making "our environment" your cult while at the same time rejecting "our economy" has sacrificed our city. Beyond the "our environment is our economy" brain-washing, we hope for some measure of "our economy" recovery.Kathy Meehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14000878422176050692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-70693908566905079682013-06-09T10:19:42.261-07:002013-06-09T10:19:42.261-07:00eakiiod MFGThe City Attorney would be at the Plann...eakiiod MFGThe City Attorney would be at the Planning Commission meeting to provide legal advice just like they are at the City Council meetings to provide legal advice. they would be no more keeping an eye on the Commissioners then they are keeping an eye on Council members. <br /><br />The cost of avoidable delays could be far greater then the cost of having the Attorney present. <br /><br />The City can wave or reduces fees if they so choose but when they do that the real cost to the city does not go away. Other services must be cut or revenues raise [higher fees or taxes]<br />Are you willing to pay more so that an applicant will not have to bear the full cost of processing his project? What services would you give up to make this happen?Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-54827796904749009832013-06-09T09:16:05.537-07:002013-06-09T09:16:05.537-07:00I don't think an applicant should have to &quo...I don't think an applicant should have to "pay" for the city attorney to be at their planning commission hearing. That cost should be born by the city. We want to make it easier to go through this process not increase costs. Besides what the attorney is really there for is to keep an eye on commissioners. Why should an applicant have to pay for that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-71579254312018588112013-06-09T06:25:04.837-07:002013-06-09T06:25:04.837-07:00I do not believe that Director White had anymore t...I do not believe that Director White had anymore training in the Brown Act then the Planning Commission. That is one of the reasons I think that The City Attorney should be at Planning Commission meetings.The other reason is that I think it can be a hardship for the applicant to have to wait four to six weeks for a new hearing because we are waiting for a legal opinion. At the very least the applicant should be given the option of paying for the City Attorney to be present so as to insure that his project is not delayed for lack of timely information.Tom Cliffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-57906082964153495522013-06-09T00:11:52.702-07:002013-06-09T00:11:52.702-07:00Tom, it sure seems like the whole farce could have...Tom, it sure seems like the whole farce could have been avoided if Director White had more forcefully put the brakes on. Left to their own devices the commission carried on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7481238059942383326.post-23938523055752866992013-06-09T00:08:45.314-07:002013-06-09T00:08:45.314-07:00Mike O'Neill won by over 1300 votes. Period. S...Mike O'Neill won by over 1300 votes. Period. Spano and Campbell and Mondfrans lost. Period. Only 23 votes separated Spano and Campbell. To interpret this result as some divine sign of voter rejection of the enviro idealogy is the height of wishful thinking. Cling to it for all you're worth. BTW which two do you think the 4037 Campbell voters picked in the other race? I'm guessing Ervin and Nihart. Maybe a few even went for Vellone. I guess that was more of that rejection of the hippies, right? Sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com